HL Deb 12 May 1981 vol 420 cc437-8
Lord Taylor of Gryfe

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will encourage the holding of a referendum in Belize on the independence terms and the arrangements with Guatemala before these are implemented.

The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Lord Carrington)

My Lords, the Belize Government have already announced their intention of holding a referendum. This referendum would precede independence.

Lord Taylor of Gryfe

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. Would he indicate whether the independence date is in any way dependent on the acceptance of the treaty with Guatemala, or are these two issues to be separate in the referendum that might take place?

Lord Carrington

My Lords, may I just explain what is happening. Next week the Guatemalan Government and ourselves and the Belizian Government are meeting in New York to put some flesh on the heads of agreement which were negotiated in London a few weeks ago. I have no reason to suppose that it will not be possible to get an agreement on that because the heads of agreement have already been signed. I very much hope it will be. After that there will be a referendum and it is not yet decided, and not at all clear, exactly what Mr. Price had in mind; exactly what the question will be that is to be asked in the referendum. Of course, on that question will depend whether or not independence will be granted.

Lord Taylor of Gryfe

My Lords, may I take the opportunity of wishing the Foreign Secretary well, and to encourage him in the steps that he has taken, and to hope that agreement will be reached at the discussions on 20th May in Washington.

Lord Carrington

I am much obliged, my Lords.

Lord Goronwy-Roberts

My Lords, may I add to that that we on this side of the Table wish the Foreign Secretary well in continuing to secure a solution of this difficult problem which affects the area as well as the countries concerned? May I make the suggestion, which no doubt he has considered very carefully, that the best way to allay any fears as to the future and the independence of Belize would be somehow to negotiate a firm international guarantee of its security under those terms of independence?

Lord Carrington

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, but I think that far and away the best guarantee for the future of Belize is an agreement with Guatemala, because it has always been the possible threat from Guatemala that has led to the postponement of the independence of Belize. If we can negotiate, as I believe we can, an agreement with Guatemala which is satisfactory both to Guatemala and to Belize, then I do not think we have anything to worry about.

Lord Gladwyn

My Lords, although I entirely agree with the Foreign Secretary that everything depends on our agreement with Guatemala, supposing that the agreement is put to the people of Belize in the form of a referendum and is turned down; I imagine that it will lapse?

Lord Carrington

My Lords, the agreement would lapse, but then we would have to consider what to do next, depending upon the question put to the people of Belize.

Baroness Vickers

My Lords, may I congratulate my noble friend for this? I think it is a great step forward, but I am rather nervous about the smallness of this country in regard to the other countries in the area. Is he going to be able to keep some of the Services there now who, after all, have been keeping the peace for some time? This is the only really democratic country in that area; the only one that has the full franchise in that area, and I hope that it will be safeguarded in the future.

Lord Carrington

My Lords, if any external threat has been removed from Belize I do not believe that it would be necessary to keep British troops there; but certainly part of our arrangements with Belize after independence would no doubt be the training of Belize security forces.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, while welcoming what the Minister is doing, may I ask him this: Have both the Opposition and the Government in Belize agreed to accept the result of the referendum?

Lord Carrington

My Lords, I do not know about what the result would be. It would be an indication of whether or not the people of Belize would be prepared to accept the treaty, if that was asked of them. But one thing is perfectly clear, regardless of whether or not they accept it; that Her Majesty's Government are committed to giving Belize independence.

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