HL Deb 04 March 1981 vol 417 cc1385-6

2.58 p.m.

Lord Beswick

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what is the estimated expenditure on the Trident project in the years 1981–82 and 1982–83.

Viscount Trenchard

My Lords, estimated Trident expenditure in the year 1981–82 is expected to be in the order of about £60 million. It is not possible to predict at this stage, with any accuracy, expenditure in 1982–83, although I can say that it will certainly not approach 1½ per cent. of the defence budget.

Lord Beswick

My Lords, while recognising that Her Majesty's Government appear to have dismissed the most formidable arguments that were made against the Trident project in this House last week, will the noble Viscount not agree, however, that even on the modest figures which he is now suggesting will be incurred in the two years referred to in my Question, it is a fact that but for the Trident programme the RAF could have had the conventional aircraft for example the Hawk trainer, about which I spoke on 22nd January?

Viscount Trenchard

My Lords, we have been over this ground in reply to questions which the noble Lord and other noble Lords have asked and, indeed, in the debate which he mentioned. I believe that it is not a case of the Government dismissing the very interesting, well argued points of view which were raised in that debate. I believe we have answered them, and I hope I shall get further opportunities to answer them in more detail.

Turning to what the money could be spent on if it were not spent on Trident, obviously there is substantially more than one answer but the point which needs to be remembered all along is that Trident is no more than a maintenance and modernisation of our strategic nuclear deterrent and that over a longer period than Polaris it will absorb the same sort of percentage of the defence budget.

Lord Beswick

My Lords, I am not disposed to argue the major case to which the noble Viscount referred in the latter part of his answer. I ask him the simple question: Would it not have been possible to keep within the defence budget and still to order the conventional aircraft to which I referred?

Viscount Trenchard

My Lords, the noble Lord has at his fingertips the exact cost of the number of Hawks concerned and I do not, but the figures are as I have described. It would have allowed £60 million more next year, although we have an overspend of our budget this year, which the noble Lord also knows quite well. But if the overspend on an expanding budget were to be maintained at the level at which it is, then we should have £60 million more for other uses.

The Earl of Kinnoull

My Lords, can my noble friend say whether any offset arrangements were made at the time of the Trident contract?

Viscount Trenchard

My Lords, I think that is a separate question, which I shall be glad to answer if my noble friend will put it down.