HL Deb 02 July 1981 vol 422 cc289-90

3.13 p.m.

The Earl of Kinnoull

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will now consider modernising the fleet of aircraft of the Queen's Flight in conjunction with the needs of RAF Transport Command.

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister announced in another place on 7th April 1981, she recently reviewed with the Ministers concerned the possibility of buying new aircraft for the Queen's Flight, but reluctantly came to the conclusion that re-equipment should be deferred for the time being.

The Earl of Kinnoull

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply, is he aware that this is a disappointing answer for those who are interested in British aviation when one sees the almost geriatric age of some of this highly prestigious fleet? Could my noble friend consider whether, if the Ministry of Defence are not able to provide the funding, it might be shared among other Government departments, in view of the responsibilities which the Queen's Flight carries out so splendidly each year?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that interesting suggestion. However, although the Ministry of Defence's problems may have been highlighted recently, I think that whatever department was funding the Queen's Flight would have come to the same conclusion, as this is, of course, a Government conclusion.

Lord Beswick

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that while there is immense and proper pride in serving in the Queen's Flight, the fact is that that name hides the fact that the aircraft are used for a wide number of people for whom time is important? Would the noble Earl say whether he agrees that it will be quite impossible for us to pretend to be a high-technology nation if we have these leaders of our country flying around in out-of-date aircraft?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, it may be highly desirable on several grounds to replace the Andovers of the Queen's Flight, but they have an excellent safety record and many years of useful life ahead of them. In view of the many other pressing demands on the defence budget, the re-equipment of the Queen's Flight has, with reluctance, had to be deferred.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, can my noble friend explain what he means by "for the time being"? Does he appreciate that, as has been suggested by the noble Lord opposite, it is the worst possible public relations for the British aerospace industry to have both the Sovereign and her Ministers using aircraft so elderly that no other leading person in the world uses them?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, I am sorry that my noble friend would not use one of these aircraft—

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords,—

The Earl of Avon

I should be perfectly happy to use one myself. My noble friend asked me about "for the time being". My noble friend is well aware that we have just had a defence review, which we are to debate in a week's time. Therefore this will have to wait until the next review. So far as his public relations comment is concerned, I shall certainly bring it to the notice of my right honourable friend.

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that helicopters of the Queen's Flight are unable to fly when icing conditions are present—that is to say, when it is raining or in cloud when the temperature drops below plus 1—and that that imposes severe constraints on the operation of these helicopters in the winter time? Would he also bear in mind that, now Westland are developing the first all-British helicopter for some years, there may well be opportunities here to replace the old Wessexes with the WG30?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, I am indeed grateful to my noble friend for his advice and I will bring it to the attention of my right honourable friend.

Lord Derwent

My Lords, my noble friend said that these aircraft have many more years of useful life in them. If I were to put down a Question in, say, 15 years' time, would that be in order?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, I should be delighted, if I am still on this earth, to answer my noble friend.