§ Lord GISBOROUGHMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what percentage reduction has been achieved in the staff of the Department of the Environment since they took office.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY-UNDERSECRETARY of STATE, DEPARTMENT of the ENVIRONMENT (Lord Bellwin)My Lords, the reduction is 6.3 per cent., from 52,122 staff in post in the Department of the Environment on 1st May 1979, to 48,862 on 1st February this year.
§ Lord GISBOROUGHMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that encouraging Answer. But can he say whether he is satisfied that the department will now be able to carry out both its statutory and its non-statutory functions adequately with that reduced and reducing staff?
§ Lord BELLWINMy Lords, it has necessitated a careful appraisal of the priorities, involving the abandonment of activities of lower or no priority and a reduced input to others. But overall it is fair to say that the department is continuing to do its job without adverse effects on its efficiency.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, would the Minister agree that it is not really very instructive to look at the overall totals of staff employed in departments, and that you have to see how many people are 136 employed on particular functions? In particular, can the Minister say what reduction there has been in the number who deal with motorway inquiries, bearing in mind the severe restrictions on public expenditure and their effect on the road programme? Also, can he say what are the figures in relation to planning appeals, where the scale of economic activity has meant that many fewer are reaching the department than a year ago?
§ Lord BELLWINMy Lords, whether it is instructive or not, is not for me to say. A Question was put to me and I have answered it. As the noble Lord asked further questions, I will be glad to send him a Written Answer with the same details in due course.
§ Lord ORR-EWINGMy Lords, will my noble friend accept that there are many people who will be delighted by the fact that he has been able to save 3,000 jobs '? Can he give an estimate of how much money has been saved as a result of this saving? Can he also say what is the next target that he is aiming at, and has this all been done through voluntary retirement or through compulsory measures?
§ Lord BELLWINMy Lords, there has been no compulsory redundancy. The target, as was stated in the Statement by the Lord President on 6th December, is for the department to save 6,350 posts, which would represent a saving in money of some £39 million, I estimate that the saving so far has been some £18 million a year.
Lord WELL-PESTELLMy Lords, may I ask the Minister, if there has been no compulsory redundancy, how that figure has been arrived at? What has happened to them?
§ Lord BELLWINMy Lords, the term which is used—one which I do not particularly like—is natural wastage. It refers to people who have retired, have passed away, have become ill or have found other employment—people who for one reason or another, of their own volition, have left the department.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, so it would be right to say that the House can assume that none of them has been made unemployed?
§ Lord BELLWINMy Lords, what they have done after they have left the department, I really cannot answer. But none of them has been made compulsorily redundant.