§ 2.48 p.m.
§ Lord GRIDLEYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what action they propose to take at the meeting of the International Whaling Commission on Whale Conservation in view of the expressed public concern on this issue.
§ Lord SANDYSMy Lords, the Government's policy on the major issues under discussion at the 32nd annual meeting of the International Whaling Commission was outlined in the speech of welcome given to the delegates by my honourable friend the Parliamentary Secretary, a copy of which has been deposited in the Library of your Lordships' House.
§ Lord GRIDLEYMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his Answer. But is he aware that I, as an adviser to the People's Trust for Endangered Species, and other conservationists might have hoped for greater results at the International Whaling Commission at Brighton? Nevertheless, we would wish warmly to congratulate Her Majesty's Government on what they have achieved at the International Whaling Commission and would hope that their policy and stance on these issues would continue into the future. Having said that, would not 665 Her Majesty's Government agree that the achievement of securing the agreement of the Economic Community nations to the imposition of a ban on the import of all whale products was a solid achievement, somewhat overclouded by the failure to stop the non-explosive harpoon being used in the catching of whales—a totally abhorrent and inhuman activity?
§ Lord SANDYSMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for his congratulations to the Government and for supporting their policies in the discussions which took place a week ago at the International Whaling Commission, there are a number of points which I should like to raise. First, the noble Lord suggested that the harpoon—the use of the cold grenade—has not been banned. My understanding is that it was agreed that the cold grenade would be banned virtually immediately in the case of its use against whales larger than the Minki whale. A non-binding resolution was passed to the effect that its use against Minki whales should cease within about a year and the subject will be on the agenda for next year's meeting.
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, despite what the noble Lord has said about the conference, can he tell us what is the attitude of the British Government? He mentioned about publishing a document on that. Why cannot he give it to the House now?
§ Lord SANDYSMy Lords, I referred to the statement which my honourable friend made at the opening of the conference, a copy of which I have in my hand. I shall be pleased to give it to the noble Lord. If I were to read it all I think it would weary the House because it runs into two foolscap pages, but perhaps I may have the opportunity of giving the noble Lord just the gist. The proposition was that last year the United Kingdom Government decided to support a ban on all commercial whaling, and we stand firm on that policy.
§ Lord MELCHETTMy Lords, while agreeing with the noble Lord that the Government were taking a positive line so far as whaling is concerned at last week's conference at Brighton, would he agree that in fact last week saw a series of 666 absolutely disastrous decisions taken so far as the future of the whales is concerned, except, as he has already mentioned, the decision on cold harpoons, which I am sure noble Lords on all sides of the House will warmly welcome? In particular, would he agree that the United States' securing a large quota for bowhead whales, of which there are only 2,000 left in the world and of which numbers are agreed to be declining, was a particularly disastrous decision taken by the International Whaling Commission; and will the noble Lord assure us that the British Government will now take urgent steps during the next 12 months to ensure that next year's meeting is a good deal more effective than this one was?
§ Lord SANDYSMy Lords, while agreeing with the noble Lord, Lord Melchett, that a number of decisions were highly unfortunate in their results, especially the failure to secure the ban on commercial whaling and, further, to secure a total ban on the cold harpoon, what the Government intend to do is to continue to pursue their policies and to ensure that these items, which are to be set forward in the agenda for the meeting in July next year, are promoted with as much vigour as possible.
§ Lord MELCHETTMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply, which I am sure will be warmly welcomed by everybody in this country who wishes to see Whales survive for the future. But may just press the noble Lord a little further and ask him whether he will ensure that this country's Commissioner at next year's International Whaling Commission, Mr. Packer, and the non-governmental organisations in this country concerned with these issues, can start discussions earlier than they were able to this year; and will he also ensure that the British Government take steps to put some pressure on Governments like Canada, South Africa and others who last week played such a major part in continuing to ensure the extinction of the whales?
§ Lord SANDYSMy Lords, I will certainly draw the attention of my right honourable friend the Minister to the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Melchett.