§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will support the proposal that a nuclear weapons-free zone should be established for Europe, extending from Poland to Portugal.
§ Lord TREFGARNENo, my Lords. In present circumstances, such a proposal would be one-sided in its application and unverifiable. It would undermine the security of the United Kingdom and her allies, and would do nothing to stabilise the current European military situation.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, is the Minister aware that this proposal has been supported by leading spokesmen in Western Europe, and by dissidents in Poland and even in East Germany whose names may not he mentioned? We all denounce the infamous treatment of Sakharov in Moscow. But is the noble Lord aware that one of Sakharov's alleged crimes is to oppose the extension of nuclear arms? If Latin America can have a free zone, why should we not seek it in Europe as well?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, the great bulk of the Western nuclear deterrent —apart of course from the maritime submarines and the like—is based in Europe. Does the noble Lord really think it right that we should agree to the complete removal of all those nuclear forces while the Russians make no similar proposal with regard to their nuclear forces just the other side of the Iron Curtain?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, would the Minister like to confirm that it has been and is the policy of successive British Governments to regard with constructive sympathy all proposals for regional arms control and disarmament, including nuclear-free zones? 1150 We showed this in New York and in other places regarding, for example, the Latin American proposals. Those progressed very far indeed and, while not being perfect, they are at least a contribution to a solution of this question. Would the Minister also confirm that we are always willing to look at proper proposals, subject to clarification and the give and take between the participants which the Minister touched on just now, as precursors of global arrangements which would take us very far indeed in regard to nuclear arms control? It would be helpful generally if the Minister would respond to this question and say that we are always willing to look constructively at such proposals as my noble friend Lord Brockway mentioned this afternoon.
§ Lord TREFGARNEYes, indeed, my Lords. I am very willing to respond to that. Such zones can make a positive contribution to international and regional security, to the cause of non-proliferation of nuclear weapons and the reduction of the risk of nuclear war; but they must be properly conceived.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, am Ito understand that the proposal emanates from Her Majesty's Government or is it a handover from the previous Government? Are we to understand that in the event of a nuclear war—we do not want one, naturally—nations can contract out?
§ Lord TREFGARNENo, my Lords. It was not a British proposal. So far it is only a proposal, anyway.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, the Minister has, unusually, asked me a question. May I ask him whether he is aware that I have not suggested that Western Europe alone should declare this free zone? Is he aware that I have suggested that Poland and Eastern Germany should be included? Is he also aware that there are dissidents in both those territories who are supporting this proposal?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, I understand what the noble Lord says; but I can only repeat that we have to judge this proposal as we see it in relation to our own security.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, can the noble Lord say what may be the total amount of fissionable material locked up in nuclear weapons in the zone to which the noble Lord refers, and what this would represent in terms of kilowatt-hours if it were used for electricity generation?
§ Lord TREFGARNENo, not without notice, my Lords.