§ Lord BROOKS of TREMORFAMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what response they have had to the Consultative Document The Government and the Voluntary Sector which they 1001 circulated some 12 months ago; and what action they propose to take in the light of the response.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY of STATE, HOME OFFICE (Lord Belstead)My Lords, approximately 500 replies have been received to the Consultative Document issued by the previous Government, and an analysis of these will be published. They agree in showing that the voluntary sector, while safeguarding its independence, favours working more closely with Government at all levels, but also show considerable diversity of view about detailed matters. While they provide a valuable starting point, they do not afford, and were not intended to provide, the basis for a programme of action. Meanwhile, the Government are studying how, within the present constraints, we can further encourage the voluntary sector's invaluable contribution to social welfare.
§ Lord BROOKS of TREMORFAMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord the Minister for that reply. As the Government have suggested an enhanced role for the voluntary sector in the light of the public expenditure cuts, would the Minister not agree that many voluntary organisations are already operating on a shoestring and will be further hit by the fact that local government will be unable to help them? Does he not feel that the Government should allocate extra resources to the voluntary sector in order that it can play its enhanced role?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, so far as central Government support for voluntary organisations is concerned, I should like to take the opportunity to say to the noble Lord that Government grants from Government departments have been maintained at the same level in real terms. So far as local government support for voluntary organisations is concerned, I think local authorities understand very well the need to provide their services as cost-effectively as possible at the present time; and, of course, in doing this the voluntary organisations have a very valuable part to play. So far as concerns the last point which the noble Lord put to me, which is extra financial support, I think we must await the proposals which will be put forward I by my right honourable friend the 1002 Chancellor of the Exchequer in his Budget.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, may I ask the Minister this question: Is he saying in his reply to my noble friend that no voluntary organisation has yet suffered a cut in the grant that it has been receiving hitherto from any Government department? Furthermore, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that, in view of the cuts, greater responsibility, particularly at the local level, is going to fall upon voluntary organisations, and that they are not going to be able to meet that challenge with the amount of money they are receiving at present?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, so far as concerns the first point which the noble Lord has put to me, my researches extended to the department in which I work, the Home Office, and to the Welsh Office, because I knew that the noble Lord asking the Question has, of course, an important function to play with the Council of Social Service in Wales; and the grants which are paid from those two Government departments have been maintained in real terms. I also made it my business to find out what the Development Commission was doing so far as its support for rural community councils is concerned, and, once again, its support for RCCs is being maintained in real terms. Further, particularly with a view to Wales, it seemed to me most important to find out what is happening to the urban programme in this country; and that, too, is being maintained at the same level. If in those researches I have left any loopholes in my armoury which the noble Lord can find, and there are grants which have suffered, then I will be the first to write to the noble Lord to admit that I have not looked far enough.
So far as concerns the second point which the noble Lord put to me, may I repeat that at a time when local authorities know full well that they are having to make the best use they can of available resources, I know that, with their experience, local authorities will realise that one of the best ways of achieving this is to make the best use of voluntary effort.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, the noble Lord in fact said, I believe, "Government departments". That being 1003 the case, I wonder whether the noble Lord the Minister would ascertain what the position is in respect of grants given by the Department of Health and Social Security to voluntary organisations, because it has been a very substantial sum in the past?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, if the noble Lord will allow me, I will write to him on that point.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, is not the noble Lord wrong about the grants made by his own department, in that the joint working group for refugees from Latin America has had its money cut by the Home Office, notwithstanding the fact that the number of refugees to which it gives assistance in the United Kingdom is still the same as it ever was? Is the noble Lord aware that, notwithstanding the Government's abhorrent decision last year to end the special programme for refugees from Latin America, we still have the same number of these people who look to the joint working group for assistance in matters such as education in English classes, and the cut by the Home Office is making it impossible for them to carry out their work?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I apologise to the House. The noble Lord is right to pick me up on this. I should have said that the voluntary service unit of the Home Office has not reduced any grants made to any voluntary organisation on grounds of public expenditure. If any reduction has been made, it has been on grounds, as the Home Office sees it, of merit and not on public expenditure grounds.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, the time for consultation on the Consultative Document was to end originally in January 1979 and that was later deferred. Do the Government intend to continue consultation in view of the change of Government in the meantime? Do they intend to keep up the momentum by issuing a document based on the representations so far received in order not to lose the full benefits of the Wolfenden Committee Report which was published 2½ years ago?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, my right honourable friend's department is at the 1004 moment considering its response to the report of Lord Wolfenden's committee.