HL Deb 25 February 1980 vol 405 cc1004-5

2.53 p.m.

The Marquess of AILESBURY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government why people taking part in orderly mass lobbies are encouraged to form queues of such excessive width that policewomen are forced to stand in heavy traffic on the road; and whether any police casualties have resulted.

Lord BELSTEAD

My Lords, the arrangements for the control of members of the public taking part in lobbies at Westminster are an operational matter for the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis. However, I understand that the Commissioner's arrangements are designed to ensure so far as possible that such queues do not cause hazard either to members of the public or to officers policing lobbies. No injuries have been sustained by officers because of any exposure of them to traffic in these circumstances.

The Marquess of AILESBURY

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that Answer. Does the noble Lord appreciate that the temporary barricades activate Parkinson's Law, which in this context states that a queue expands laterally to take up that large proportion of the pavement allocated to it by the barricade? Is the noble Lord aware that on Tuesday there was a mass lobby by Metal Box employees on which occasion, for once, the barricades were not used? Finally, is the noble Lord aware that the consequence of that was that the queue, having been left largely to its own devices, formed up virtually in single file, which seemed to be better for everybody and especially better, because safer, for the long-suffering police constables?

Lord BELSTEAD

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Marquess for raising this. It affects the safety of people, both members of the public and of the Metropolitan Police. The noble Marquess was right to raise it. But having said that, this is an operational matter for the Commissioner. As I understand it, the way he works is to allow an average width for a queue envisaged as being of four or five persons. The noble Lord is saying that this activates Parkinson's Law and that it might be possible to have narrower queue widths. I should like to draw the attention of the Commissioner of Police to the words of the noble Marquess. This, I will do.