§ 2.45 p.m.
§ Baroness ELLIOT of HARWOODMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are planning to secure free entry to France for British sheep-meat following the European Court decision.
The MINISTER of STATE, MINISTRY of AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES and FOOD (Earl Ferrers)My Lords, the French Minister of Agriculture confirmed to our Embassy in Paris last Thursday that although some British lamb would be imported by France, he was not prepared to allow unrestricted access to the French market for British lamb. This decision is totally incompatible with the judgment of the European Court. My right honourable friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is pressing the Agriculture Commissioner, Mr. Gundelach, to fulfil the Commission's responsibility for upholding the treaties and to take action with the French Government to ensure that they comply with the judgment of the European Court.
§ Baroness ELLIOT of HARWOODMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for his Answer, may I ask him whether there are any plans for the Commission to make the French abide by the rules of the Commission and whether or not, if it is impossible to do that, Her Majesty's Government have any plans to help in any way those British producers of sheep who are being severely hurt by this policy, which is quite contrary to anything we hoped for when we went into the Common Market?
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, my noble friend will be aware that some consignments of lamb have been permitted into France. My right honourable friend, who is attending the Council of Ministers at the moment, is concerned to ensure that these consignments will be continued, and he is pressing the agriculture Minister of France to ensure that that should be so.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords can the Minister tell us what action he expects Mr. Gundelach to take to ensure that the French Government comply with the clear order of the European Court?
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, I shall be in a better position to answer that question when my noble friend has come back from discussing the matter with Mr. Gundelach.
§ Viscount MASSEREENE and FERRARDMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that British fruit farmers, particularly Kent fruit farmers, have suffered considerably through the importation of French apples? Although I could not agree that it would be wise to go against a ruling of the European Court, as France has done, would not my noble friend agree that we in this country have various means of putting quite considerable pressure on France to lift this ban on British lamb?
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, because one Member State happens to act outside the judgment of the European Court it is not our intention to do the same.
§ Lord GLADWYNMy Lords, would the Government confirm that this is the first time in history that any member Government of the Community has ever failed to accept and immediately implement any judgment of the Court?
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, I think that the noble Lord is very nearly correct. All I would say to him is that if the Community is going to succeed, as we all wish it to do, then we must abide by the judgments of the European Court.
§ Lord GLENKINGLASMy Lords, will my noble friend accept my congratulations on the stand he is taking, but will he also indicate to the Government that, should these negotiations fail after the worst period of weather on the hills in history, a period of 13 months, and the worst prices following on enormous increases in costs, they ought to accept some responsibility for looking after their sheep farmers, in the same way as the French illegally are trying to look after theirs?
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, the answer to that question of my noble friend is, no, because the inference is that we should act illegally, and we shall not act illegally.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, would the Minister agree that probably the best retort to the French would be for us to put an embargo upon the importation of French wine into this country?
§ Several noble Lords: Perish the thought!
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, that is an ingenious suggestion which would not find a lot of favour with a number of people.
§ Lord GLENKINGLASMy Lords, may I correct my noble friend. I was not asking him to act illegally in any sense at all. However, my noble friend and his colleagues have said that, should other things fail, matters like the hill sheep subsidy would be considered in the light of results at the end of the year. The results have been disastrous but nothing has happened. And that is not illegal.
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, I apologise to my noble friend for having misunderstood his question. It is the Government's intention to take care of the hill sheep and of our own sheep industry, and indeed we shall be doing so.
§ Lord SAINSBURYMy Lords, can the Minister indicate what the Government policy is with regard to sheepmeat other than free trade within the Community? Am I right in assuming that they are not in favour of a full CAP régime, including support buying, intervention prices and export subsidies or the application of monetary compensatory amounts between countries? Would he further agree that if the full CAP régime was applied it could be very costly as regards the Community budget?
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, we are perfectly prepared to consider a Community régime for sheep provided that it takes into account the fact that we are the major producer and the major consumer of sheepmeat in the Community, and provided also that it takes into account our relations with New Zealand.
Lord CHELWOODMy Lords, while naturally being glad that the Government are being so firm about this question, may I ask my noble friend for an assurance that he will not enter into an agreement with the French Government which could possibly damage the interests of New Zealand in this respect, in view of the great importance of the British market—indeed, of the whole Community market—to New Zealand? In other words, putting it more simply, that there will be no horse trading in lamb.
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, I think my noble friend can rest assured that in any negotiations over a Community sheep régime we shall have very firmly in mind our commitments to New Zealand; and the point that he makes about the reliance of New Zealand on their exports to this country is well known and well taken care of.