§ 2.45 p.m.
§ Lord BALFOUR of INCHRYEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in the event of a fishing vessel belonging to an EEC country contravening United Kingdom fishing limits, any subsequent court proceedings would be in British courts or whether, at the behest of the Government of the offending vessel's country, the case could be transferred to the European Court.
§ The LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone)My Lords, where a fishing vessel of a Member State of the EEC is accused of contravening fisheries legislation in force within British fishing limits, subsequent court proceedings will take place in United Kingdom courts. The case cannot be transferred to the European Court, which has no criminal jurisdiction; but if the case raises a question of Community law and a decision on that question is necessary to enable the United Kingdom court to give judgment, it may (and in the case of a tribunal from which no further appeal is possible, it must) refer that question to the European Court for a preliminary ruling. The proceedings in the United Kingdom court will then be stayed until the ruling of the European Court has been obtained.
§ Lord BALFOUR of INCHRYEMy Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor for his comprehensive reply, but may I ask him one question? Could a vessel from an EEC country accused of transgressing the United Kingdom fishing regulations and laws claim that, in view of the disputed position of the whole fishing policy within the EEC, the offence would have to be dealt with under Community law and therefore be referred to the European Court for that preliminary hearing which the noble and learned Lord mentioned in his reply, rather than be dealt with by a British court?
§ The LORD CHANCELLORMy Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend for his gratitude, but my reply was not quite so comprehensive as it ought to have been. There was a second page, and I shall now give the last part of my original Answer and then answer, if I 330 may, with the leave of the House, my noble friend's supplementary.
This is what I omitted to say. The Government of the offending vessel's country plays no part in the proceedings before the United Kingdom court and cannot influence its decision to refer a question of Community law to the European Court. If however such a question is referred, the Government of any Member State may submit written observations to the European Court and may appear in the oral proceedings before that court.
I now turn to my noble friend's supplementary. I think that the answer is comprehended in my original Answer. If a question of Community law occurs during the hearing of a case, whether civil or criminal, before a United Kingdom court, the United Kingdom court may refer that question of Community law for a Community court ruling. It is not bound to do so; it is a matter of discretion, unless the court is one from which no further appeal is possible. In that case, European law compels the reference to be made.
§ Lord HARMAR-NICHOLLSMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that his reply, which is explicit, is rather puzzling in the light of what has happened recently? It was suggested, when the French did not obey the European Court decision on sheepmeat, that the reason they took the action they did was because there was no appeal from the European Court, and therefore they could not pursue it on the normal legal lines. Now the noble and learned Lord is telling us that a matter which comes clearly within the purview of the British court can be sent to the European Court and they give their decision afterwards, which I should have thought would put the British court in the position of being to some extent a court of appeal from the European Court's decision. It is all rather puzzling.
§ The LORD CHANCELLORMy Lords, this is the fish course. I think I had better not, without breach of table manners, pursue the matter into the roast lamb, but I think my noble friend has got it wrong. I think I am right in saying that there already is a ruling against the French Government when we come to roast lamb.
Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTONMy Lords, I wonder whether the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor can assist me. I have always understood that the European courts had no criminal jurisdiction. They are criminal courts. In that case, how can a European ruling affect a trial for a crime committed within British jurisdiction and within British territorial waters?
§ The LORD CHANCELLORMy Lords, I do not think the noble Lord has actually followed my original Answer. In that Answer I expressly explained that the European Court has no criminal jurisdiction and therefore a case cannot be referred to it, but a question of law can be referred to it. That can happen in any case, whether criminal or civil, because they give a preliminary opinion on the question of law which may arise during the course of criminal proceedings.