§ Lord ELLENBOROUGHMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many constituencies in England, Scotland and Wales have electorates of (a) less than 50,000 and (b) more than 80,000; how the representation of the constituencies in each category is distributed among the political parties; and whether it is anticipated that the final recommendations of the Boundary Commission will be received and implemented before 1984.>
§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE, HOME OFFICE (Lord Belstead)My Lords, I am sending my noble friend a table containing the information requested in the first part of his Question, together with a copy of an OPCS Monitor issued in April which gives figures for the electorate of every parliamentary constituency. For the convenience of your Lordships, I will summarise the position as follows. There are 90 parliamentary constituencies in Great Britain with less than 50,000 electors; 58 are Labour, 25 Conservative, 4 Liberal, 2 Plaid Cymru and 1 Scottish National Party. There are 102 constituencies with more than 80,000 electors; 79 are Conservative, 22 Labour and 1 Liberal.
I understand that the reports of the parliamentary Boundary Commissions for England and Scotland are likely to be received by mid-1982 and that for the Welsh Commission a little later. The Government intend to implement the recommendations of the Commissions, with or without modifications, as soon as 326 practicable after having received their reports.
§ Lord ELLENBOROUGHMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that detailed Answer. Nevertheless, as one who myself is a supporter of the first-past-the-post system, may I ask whether he agrees that as something approaching one-third of the parliamentary constituencies in England, Scotland and Wales are either substantially or, in many cases grossly under- or over-represented, and have been for some time, this has only the gravest implications for the health of the first-past-the-post system? Furthermore, while appreciating what my noble friend said about how the Boundary Commissions are getting on, may I ask him whether he agrees that it is a fact that the Boundary Commissions are not renowned for their speed, and will he and his right honourable friend in another place do all they possibly can to see to it that they are galvanised into action, so that their reports are received in plenty of time and implemented before the next general election, which I sincerely trust will be taking place some time around 1984?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, the review of constituencies has, I think, everything to do with population change—either to do with the fall or the increase in population because of births and deaths, or because of movements in population—not with methods of voting. So far as the present interval of 10 to 15 years between general reviews is concerned, this was introduced in 1958. The previous interval was three to seven years and it was found to be too short, in view of the disturbance that it caused. It is on those rules that the Boundary Commissions are now in the middle of undertaking their reviews, and they are up-to-date in the work that they are doing.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, does the Minister not feel that it is rather impertinent for this unelected House to criticise the way in which the elected House is elected?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I was not aware that there was any particular criticism.
§ Lord TRANMIREMy Lords, can my noble friend say whether any use has ever been made of subsection (3) of Section 2 of the 1949 Act, which provides for a special review in cases of glaring inconsistency? This was recommended by a Speaker's Conference in 1944 of which I was a member, and so far as I know it has never been used. I am sure that the time has come to review the whole of this system, in order to get a fair and more democratic system of electing our Members.
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, if my noble friend is referring to the interim reviews, I am not aware that whenever an interim review has been undertaken any constituency has, as a result of that, been created, nor has any constituency ever been extinguished.
§ Lord UNDERHILLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether it is not a fact that past parliamentary Boundary Commissions have exercised a toleration limit both above and below the electoral quota, and that although the Commissions act non-politically it so happens that in many of the large county constituencies the recommendations of the Commissions have had a tendency to favour the Conservative Party? Also, is it not a fact that some of the small electorate constituencies are in areas of inner city decay and acute deprivation, which means that Members of Parliament for those constituencies have a high intensity of problems with which to deal? Finally, has the noble Lord any information at all on the work of the local government Boundary Commissions, as the progress of their work will depend upon the speed of the parliamentary Commissions?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I am not trying to be flippant, but the answer to the noble Lord's questions are, Yes; I am not sure; I do not know; and, No.
§ Lord BOYD-CARPENTERMy Lords, can my noble friend, with equal succinctness, tell me whether the Boundary Commission is free to consider, and is considering, the disparity at present between the size of constituencies in England and Northern Ireland on the one hand and Scotland and Wales on the other?
§ Lord BELSTEADNo, my Lords; I shall have to write to the noble Lord if I have got this wrong, but, as I understand it, the Commissions are dealing with the countries that they are statutorily charged with dealing with. In other words, there are separate Commissions for Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether the interest displayed in this matter is because some day we hope to be an elected Chamber? If that is not the reason for the interest, what is it?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, the noble Lord has got rather longer—not much, but rather longer experience than I. Perhaps he had better answer the question himself.
§ The Earl of LAUDERDALEMy Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that there is a certain reason why this House should interest itself in the constitution of the other place, inasmuch as the sole remaining veto power relates to our capacity to block any attempt to tamper with the quinquennial Act?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I agree with the first part of my noble friend's supplementary question, but I should like to think about the second part.
§ Lord BANKSMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that if multi-Member constituencies were in use it would be possible to adjust the number of Members in order to take account of the electorate in each constituency and thus avoid the unfairness to which the Question refers?
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, this is a hypothesis, of course, because it would need a change in the rules. I shall look forward to legislation from the Liberal Party on that particular subject.