§ 3.18 p.m.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what decision has been made regarding grants for sixth formers and 16 to 18-year-old students in Northern Ireland.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, NORTHERN IRELAND OFFICE (Lord Melchett)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government have decided to introduce, with effect from September 1979, an improved mandatory system of allowances for 16 to 18-year-old students attending full-time courses at schools or institutions of further education in Northern Ireland. The maximum allowance, which will be means-tested, will be £7.50 per week.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, is the Minister aware how many of us will welcome that announcement? Will it not mean that 16-year-olds will stay on 753 for their full education when there is a higher juvenile unemployment rate in Northern Ireland than in all the rest of the United Kingdom? Can he also confirm whether the present average grant is now about £2, and will this not increase it by four times?
§ Lord MELCHETTMy Lords, the present average annual allowance in Northern Ireland is £87 for a full year, and so the new scheme will be a very considerable improvement on what at the moment is a very low rate of allowance in Northern Ireland. Of course, the scheme will be particularly useful in Northern Ireland where there is an exceptionally high level of both unemployment and family poverty. We expect about 5,000 students to be entitled to allowances in the first year and for the number to rise to about 6,500 within three years, which will represent about 26 per cent. of all eligible students in the age group.
§ Lord BELSTEADMy Lords, I wonder whether I may ask the noble Lord this question. This will obviously be helpful in the way that has been suggested, but the grants which exist at the moment are discretionary and the grants which the noble Lord has just announced are mandatory. What will be the increased overall cost?
§ Lord MELCHETTMy Lords, the cost of the existing scheme in 1977–78 was £135,000. The cost of the new scheme, in the first year, will be about £1½ million, and that will rise to about £3 million when the scheme has been going for more than a year.
§ Lord BLEASEMy Lords, may I indicate to my noble friend—
§ Lord BLEASEMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he is aware of the warm support in Northern Ireland for this scheme when it was announced on 7th March? Can the Minister also indicate whether the monitoring arrangements will include the effect of the scheme on the additional numbers acquiring or achieving educational qualifications, the effect of the scheme on the various projects 754 in Northern Ireland under the Youth Opportunities Scheme and the effect of the scheme on educational requirements and recruitment for apprenticeship training?
§ Lord MELCHETTYes, my Lords. I think that my noble friend's remarks about the welcome that this announcement received in Northern Ireland are quite right, and that underlines how important a scheme of this kind is in a region which suffers the problems of poverty and unemployment that Northern Ireland does. The monitoring arrangements are currently being worked out between my Department, the Department of Education in Northern Ireland and the Department of Education and Science in London, who are particularly interested to see what effects this scheme has, given that the existing scheme is virtually of no significance at all. The results of its operation in Northern Ireland will be of considerable interest to LEAs in England and Wales, who are thinking of introducing schemes or are watching the pilot schemes in England. We will certainly take into account the various factors which my noble friend has suggested.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, since the question relates to 16 to 18-year-olds, and the noble Lord has given a figure, on what percentage take-up in respect of that age group is the calculation based?
§ Lord MELCHETTMy Lords, as I think I said in a previous answer, we estimate that by the time the scheme has run for three years 26 per cent. of the eligible age group will be receiving grants. That compares to about 6 per cent. of the age group receiving the very low discretionary allowances which are available at the moment.
§ Lord TAYLOR of BLACKBURNMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether the Northern Ireland Board of Education has been fully consulted on this matter, and whether their views coincide with those of the Government?
§ Lord MELCHETTMy Lords, the five Education and Library Boards in Northern Ireland have, of course, been consulted and the detailed arrangements which it will be for the area boards to implement are 755 currently being worked out by a joint working party, made up of representatives of the area boards and my Department.
§ Lord MOYNEMy Lords, without asking for figures, can the noble Lord say whether there will, in a general way, be some saving in unemployment pay?
§ Lord MELCHETTYes, my Lords. The figures that I have given are the gross cost to the education vote of the scheme. There will, of course, be some considerable savings and, I would add, considerable benefits to the young people involved, who are enabled to stay on at school when they are not currently able to do so.