§ 3.24 p.m.
§ Lord BOYD-CARPENTERMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what amelioration of the restrictions imposed by the Spanish Government on aircraft landing at and taking off from Gibraltar has resulted from their discussions with the Spanish Government.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, as yet there has been no relaxation of the airspace restrictions at Gibraltar.
§ Lord BOYD-CARPENTERMy Lords, does the noble Lord recall that nearly two years ago his noble friend Lord Oram, answering for the Government from that Bench, indicated that repeated representations were being made about this situation and 18 months ago expressed Her Majesty's Government's indignation? In view of the terms of the noble Lord's Answer today, can he tell us what Her Majesty's Government are going to do about this quite unprecedented interference by a friendly Power in the operation of another friendly Power's airport?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the noble Lord puts the position 756 precisely. Successive Spanish Governments have been made fully aware of our view that the airspace restrictions constitute an unwarranted interference with international air navigation, and that the restrictions, in general, impede progress in resolving the Gibraltar problem. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary himself saw the Spanish Foreign Secretary at that time last year, and hopes to resume talks at that level with the Spanish Government about this question, as soon as the new Spanish Government has been set up as a result of the recent elections.
Lord MORRISMy Lords, may I ask the Minister what amelioration of the restrictions imposed by the British authorities on aircraft landing and taking off at London's Heathrow has resulted from discussions with the Spanish Government? Also, does not the Minister feel that Her Majesty's Government somehow put themselves in the position of a man who is caught red-handed in a glasshouse while holding stones?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSNo, my Lords. I could not agree with that interpretation of the situation. What is clear is that what has been happening in the airspace above Gibraltar, while not constituting a serious hazard as I understand it from the Civil Aviation Authority, is nevertheless an unwarranted interference with airspace within the understanding of member States of any international air authority. What has been done at Heathrow is in no way comparable with or a counterpart to what has been done at Gibraltar.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, would the noble Lord, at a suitable moment, convey how disappointed many of us have been from the fact that we had hoped great things of this new régime in Spain, and from the fact that we hope to co-operate with them in Europe in the future, and what a help it would be to Anglo-Spanish relations if improvements could be made in this field?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I think that the noble and learned Lord puts the views of this House and of our country with precision and warmth. There has been a very long-standing, 757 historic, friendly relationship between this country and Spain, at least dating back to the Peninsular War, as anybody who visits Spain is reminded from time to time. Of course, our connection with Portugal goes back even further than that. I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, would wish his Question to be put and answered within the context and in the atmosphere of the observations just made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hailsham.
§ The Earl of ONSLOWMy Lords, will it not make it very difficult for Spain's accession to the European Community, which we all hope will happen, if there is to be not only this airspace embargo but also the border embargo? It really would be intolerable if these embargoes were to go on between two co-members of the European Community, even though it is possible to understand Spanish feelings about the Rock of Gibraltar.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSYes indeed, my Lords. We have repeatedly said that we do not link the two issues, one with the other. We are strongly in favour of the accession of democratic Spain to the European Community. We have supported this, often in a leading position. At the same time, we find it inconceivable that, as a fellow member of the Community, any Spanish Government could continue to treat Gibraltar and the use of its airspace in the way that, unfortunately, Spanish Governments have done in the past and are doing now.
§ Lord BALFOUR of INCHRYEMy Lords, the Minister advisedly used the term "serious hazard". May I ask him this question: Would the Government accept that, though the several operators into Gibraltar all take the maximum possible precautions, there are meteorological conditions which make it a hazard? I shall not say that it is serious, because all hazards are serious. Therefore, will the Government continue to press, so that British aircraft can use Gibraltar in all weather conditions with the maximum obtainable safety?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSIndeed, my Lords, I agree entirely with the two points made by the noble Lord, who is himself a former Air Minister. I am advised that in normal circumstances the 758 prohibited zone does not per se constitute a danger. But we have been reminded that there is always a hazard in the air, particularly when weather conditions are not favourable, as sometimes happens in the Gibraltar airspace. There have been a number of infringements by British aircraft, and the Spanish authorities have complained to us about them. We have replied that we regard the restrictions as unwarranted, and in any case I am sure that I am within the opinion of the House in saying that when those restrictions need to be infringed in the interests of maximum possible safety, they should be.