THE LABOUR PARTY'S EUROPEAN MANIFESTO (Hansard, 20 February 1979)

§ Lord BETHELL
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)
My Lords, the Manifesto has been approved by the National Executive of the Labour Party for the 1693 use of Labour Party candidates in the elections to the European Assembly to be held on 7th June. There is much in it which coincides with the Government's existing policies, and some points which do not.

§ Lord BETHELL
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that schizophrenic reply. Is he now ready, on behalf of the Government, to repudiate outright the paragraph in the Manifesto which threatens that, unless certain conditions are met, his Party will break the Treaty of Rome and withdraw Britain from the European Economic Community?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I am not here today to issue repudiations ahead of the circumstances of the time. This is not the only Party in Britain; nor is this the only country where there are reservations about certain aspects of Community policy and where there are, to a greater or lesser degree, sections of the population who from time to time do not rule out the possibility of taking such action. This is not to say that this country will do anything of the kind. We are in the Common Market by a two-to-one majority of our people to do our best constructively to improve the working of that market so that British interests as well as European interests arc properly served.

§ Lord PARGITER
My Lords, would my noble friend agree that this is a misrepresentation of what was said in the Manifesto. It did not say anything about breaking the Treaty of Rome, but rather that it would have to be considered if the Government failed to get those objectives.

§ Baroness ELLES
My Lords, I should like to ask—

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, perhaps I could first respond to the very helpful contribution of my noble friend. The situation is exactly as my noble friend Lord Pargiter has described. It is a long Manifesto and the section which relates to that possible contingency, which is not related solely to British public opinion—I repeat that I move about Europe as much as anybody and I know what I am talking about—contains a statement that that is 1694 an eventuality or possibility that cannot be ruled out. Indeed, I think that my noble friend quoted it more precisely than I have quoted it. I am sorry that the noble Baroness was interrupted.

§ Baroness ELLES
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. I know that the noble Lord is a firm believer in the European Community and has often made that clear in the House. However, I must take issue with him and would be grateful if he could give an indication of which countries or peoples of Europe other than Britain—the British Government and the British people—ever considered coming out of the Community? He knows as well as I—and I also travel around Europe—that there is no other Government than the British Government who have ever considered in recent years, certainly within the last three years, breaking with the European Community. Will the Minister kindly name the countries that he was indicating?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, it appears that the noble Baroness is more fully apprised of the views and intentions of European Governments than she is of her own Government. I have no information as regards what European Governments are thinking or intend to do about this. I was saying—and it is commonsense—that in this country in all Parties, including that of the noble Baroness, there are these contingent thoughts. They are not harmful: they are a part of democratic thinking. The Community is developing and so is opinion and argument about it—we must not be afraid of that—in all Parties of this country and in all countries of Europe, too, to a greater or lesser degree. I do not think that I am required to give a schedule of the degree to which various sections of opinion in other countries of Europe are thinking about these matters.

§ Lord WIGG
My Lords, before the Minister rises again to that piece of misrepresentation, would he inform himself of what the Manifesto does, in fact, say about breaking? It says: The Labour Party would have to consider very seriously whether continued EEC membership was in the best interests of the British people". Will he give the assurance that Her Majesty's Government will always and 1695 at all times—unlike the Opposition—put the interests of Britain first and foremost in their thinking?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I must tell my noble friend that I keep myself very fully informed on these matters. I know exactly what the Manifesto says. As I have indicated to the House, I believe—and I see no dichotomy in a democratic country—in a situation of growth, which we hope is economic as well as arguable, we should let these thoughts develop. As to the point that the Government will put the interests of Britain first, I sought to put it that we would seek—and I think that any Government in this country would seek—to improve as well as reform, where necessary, the operations of the Community so that British interests and European interests, and I beg leave to add the interests of Western democracy and world democracy, are better served.

§ Lord CARRINGTON
My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord would let us know a little more of the Government's thinking. He told us that the Government were happy that a great many issues in the Manifesto coincided with the Government's policy. Are the Government happy that in the election the Labour Party should campaign on those issues which do not coincide with the Government's policy?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I am very happy to enlighten the noble Lord—I do not think that I need enlighten my side of the House or many on the Opposition side of the House—that our procedure as a democratic Party in relation to a British General Election is laid down in our constitution, whereby the national executive and the Parliamentary Labour Party, and when we are in office necessarily the Cabinet, are involved. It is a joint production of such a situation that is placed before the people at a General Election. As to the content, I could not offhand issue a general statement. I think that the country as a whole will find that we shall appeal for support for continuation within the Common Market, subject to our pressing forward the points of improvement that I have sought to explain this afternoon.

§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIE
My Lords, is the Minister not uneasy about the multitude of pinpricks and complaints which emanate from this country in our European partnership? Is he not aware that we are extremely unpopular in many circles, particularly agricultural ones, and that far from us deciding to leave the Common Market we might well be "put out" by our exasperated partners?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I am not so aware. All I know is that if there are "pinpricks," as the noble Lord calls them, from this country there are quite substantial kicks from outside to this country. It is time that, in the context of European unity—and political unity is even more important than economic uniformity—this country was allowed by its own citizens to put forward what I regard as very reasonable and constructive proposals from time to time, especially with regard to the Common Agricultural Policy.

§ Lord DUNCAN-SANDYS
My Lords, can the Minister confirm that the Treaty of Rome which we have signed does not contain any provision for withdrawal?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I could not confirm that. Indeed, as Members know, this is a sovereign Parliament and in the most unlikely contingency of our deciding that our interests and, I add, the interests of the Western World, were best served by such an action, I think, speaking personally, that it would lie within the province of this Parliament so to decide. However, that is anticipating a contingency so remote that I suspect we may be doing harm to the European concept, and to the wider, more vital concept of democratic unity throughout the world, simply by speculating on these remote possibilities.

§ Lord SHINWELL
My Lords, can my noble friend enlighten me on an aspect of a matter that has raised a number of questions from the other side of the House? In view of the likelihood of a European Parliament being established alongside a Commission, a Council of Ministers and a House of Commons that will be composed of a number of Select Committees in order to control whichever Government happen to be in office, could he enlighten me as to the future of many 1697 Members of your Lordships' House including myself? What is our future? What will happen to this Assembly?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, the obvious answer to my noble friend is that, "that is quite a number of other questions!" However, as regards the survival of my noble friend, I can give him an absolute assurance that I myself and I suspect the whole Government, and any successive Government, will bend our best efforts to obtain that objective.

§ Lord BETHELL
My Lords, will the Minister give us one or two examples of areas in the Manifesto with which the Government do not agree, but which the noble Lord says exist.

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, not at Question Time—

§ Lord BETHELL
Just one!

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
—not in 30 seconds, or even 30 minutes.