§ Lord MONSONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of recent developments, they will give the fullest moral support to the people of Taiwan in their efforts to maintain their prosperity and freedom.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government acknowledge the position of the Chinese Government that Taiwan is a Province of the People's Republic of China. It has noted that Vice-Premier Deng Xiaoping has said that China will fully respect the present realities on Taiwan and that there will be no change in the social system on Taiwan after reunification, unless the people want it.
§ Lord MONSONMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. Of course I recognise that diplomatic niceties necessitate a certain circumspection on his part. Nevertheless, would he not agree that even if one disregards the moral aspect—which one ought not to do—it is still extremely foolish from the point of view of coldblooded real politik to give one's friends and allies, and, even more important, one's potential friends and allies, the impression that the West is prepared to jettison, at the drop of a hat, a small, friendly country which has done us no harm and which has pulled itself up largely by its own unaided efforts, for the sake of possibly transient commercial and strategic advantage elsewhere?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the noble Lord saw this in most unexceptionable terms. We certainly intend no harm to Taiwan. We enjoy a substantial trade. It is somewhat adverse to us at the moment but the terms are gradually improving in our favour. We propose—and the People's Republic expect this—to continue to have normal relations on the basis of commercial and other transactions. We have of course taken a stand from as early as Cairo and Potsdam that Taiwan is a part of mainland China. It is a very great gain that, on the occasion of his visit to the United States, the Chinese Vice-President should once more have emphasised that the People's Republic do not intend to start anything which would imperil the position of Taiwan as it now is. My own view is that the Chinese Government will continue to assert its claim to sovereignty over the Taiwan Province—as they regard it—but to maintain the present method of dealing with that Province. We for the past 30 years have done precisely that.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that if ever Taiwan loses her independence, it will only create another vast refugee problem similar to the one now existing in Vietnam, with all its appalling international complications? Is it not our duty, even on humanitarian grounds alone, to try to forestall the vast amount of human suffering that would inevitably ensue?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, certainly, as always, we shall do everything we can to forestall unnecessary suffering. We cannot of course intrude or interfere in every part of the world, and I sometimes feel that the period of automatic European intervention is long over. What I think we should bear in mind is that the Chinese Government in Peking, through its Vice-Premier in particular, have made a very helpful, very forthcoming series of statements in relation to Taiwan. I think that we can leave it there. I think we may expect that the Chinese, while asserting their claim to sovereignty, which we and others in the West have accepted for many years, will nevertheless avoid any action which will create new difficulties in that part of the world.
The Earl of SELKIRKMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether our Ambassador in Peking will be going to Taiwan? 1095 Would that not make our relations with Taiwan rather closer?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, an Ambassador from Peking to Taiwan? I have no idea. I must ask the Chinese, as no doubt the noble Earl will.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARY-LEBONEMy Lords, lest there be any mistake, I thought that my noble friend was asking a somewhat different question from that to which the noble Lord answered. I believe that if he had heard it correctly the noble Lord would probably have wished to answer the question in the negative.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, in vain is the snare spread before the watchful bird! Before I return any answer to the noble Earl, knowing his background and experience, I should wish to hear the question again.
The Earl of SELKIRKMy Lords, the question that I asked the noble Lord was whether our Ambassador in Peking will be visiting Taiwan? I suppose that might add to the closer relations of this country with Taiwan.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSI am most grateful to the noble Earl for repeating his question, and indeed for the timely assistance from the Conservative Front Bench—which is very acceptable, at least these days. I have no knowledge of any plans by our Ambassador to visit Taiwan from Peking. If it is of particular interest to the noble Earl and others, I will look into the matter.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that the inhabitants of Taiwan are entitled to the same rights of self-determination as those of any other independent territory, not excluding Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSCertainly, my Lords; all composite communities on a territorial basis are entitled to assert their wishes. I was rather encouraged when the Vice-Premier, speaking, I think, in the United States, said there would be no change in the internal 1096 policy of Taiwan, even after the reunification and without self-determination of the Taiwanese.