§ 2.42 p.m.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will recommend the captains of British ships at sea to render all possible assistance to refugees from Vietnam, to enable them to reach the shores of countries willing to grant them asylum.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, in September 1977 the Government reminded masters of British vessels, through the General Council of British Shipping, of our legislation requiring them to assist 304 anyone in distress at sea when they are able to do so. We believe British masters have a good record in this respect.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware that many instances have been reported by the Vietnamese refugees who have managed to reach Darwin that the law of the sea to assist ships in distress has been disregarded, and many Vietnamese lives have been lost in consequence? Could the noble Lord give an assurance that no British ships have refused to offer assistance or will refuse in the future if assistance is asked for?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I am not aware of any instance where a British ship has acted in that manner. As I said, they have a good record in this respect, conforming with international obligations and, indeed the strong encouragement they get from the Government and their own General Council to conform to those requirements. As to the future, I am quite sure that the General Council, in accord with the international provisions, will continue to remind British masters of their duties. I have every confidence that British masters of ships will continue to discharge their international and humane duties.
§ Lord GRIDLEYMy Lords, has the noble Lord any information regarding whether the Governments of Singapore or Malaysia have been prepared to accept people who have been picked up on the seas and taken into ports in those countries?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I could not answer that question without notice. In the meantime, I can say that I have no reason to believe that either country has proved unforthcoming about assisting these unfortunate people.
§ Lord MONSONMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that within the past month the captain of a Thai merchant ship, who rescued a number of refugees whose boat was on the point of sinking and conveyed them to his home port, was arrested and charged with aiding and abetting illegal immigration? This was no doubt as a result of the Thai authorities wishing to bring moral pressure to bear 305 upon the Western Powers. Would the noble Lord not agree that it is essential if this situation is to be avoided and if these people are not going to be left to drown or die of exposure, that the Western Powers—indeed, all the major non-Communist Powers—get together as a matter of urgency to formulate a policy for the rescue and resettlement of these refugees?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I could not comment on the case which the noble Lord has adduced. However, I can assure him that we not only make strong and continuous representations when necessary, but join with our friends and partners on every possible occasion to reinforce what is, after all, an international obligation. Generally, the obligations are observed by the countries with whom we associate. But we have very good relations with countries like Thailand, and I have no doubt at all that if we had occasion to point out to them certain implications of some actions they would listen in the friendliest possible way. Generally, I would not say that the Thai Government have been reluctant to assist. Internally they have a fine record of helping masses of refugees, especially from Cambodia, as the noble Lord, Lord Elton, pointed out a few weeks ago in an important debate in which he and I took part.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, further to that reply, does the noble Lord agree that the Thais are under tremendous pressure? They have upwards of 100,000 refugees on their soil. Is he aware of the plan which was foreshadowed by Vice-President Mondale, in Bangkok on 4th May, to institute a Western development countries' consortium to help settle these refugees in Thailand? If so, can we offer that our support?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I am not conversant with the full details of the proposals of the Vice-President, but I can give the noble Lord the assurance that as soon as they are put to us, with whatever proposals the United States Government see fit to make in relation to a consortium, we shall most certainly consider any such proposals very carefully and, I believe, favourably. As to the first point made by the noble Lord, I am grateful to him for saying what 306 he has said about the Government of Thailand. I wish once more to pay tribute to the humanity and the self-sacrifice of the policy which the Thai Government have followed. He and I know the extent to which they have given aid and succour to hundreds of thousands of people who were in dire distress and often in danger of losing their lives.
Lord HAWKEMy Lords, could the noble Lord say whether any approaches have been made to any of the South American countries to harbour these unfortunate people?—since South America is probably the only place where there is really unused space.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSCertainly, my Lords, all countries should co-operate in offering refuge to these very unfortunate people. We have done our bit, and we are prepared to consider how much more we can do in admitting as many as we reasonably can and in extending financial aid. I would pay tribute to the extent to which the United States have helped in this matter on the general question of admitting Vietnamese refugees. There are a number of countries in South America which are already looking with sympathetic favour at these proposals.