§ Lord GREENHILL of HARROWMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make a Statement to allay the anxiety about the future teaching role of King's College Hospital caused by recent Press reports in the Daily Telegraph of 10th April commenting on the reduced budget for 1978-79 of the Lambeth, Southwark and Lewisham Area Health Authority (Teaching).
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, we have no intention of closing or fundamentally changing the role of any of the London teaching hospitals in the near future. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Social Services has just launched a study of hospital provision in Inner London in the long-term, taking into account the continuing fall in the residential population and the need to support medical teaching. However, it is too soon to forecast what the outcome will be, either generally or in relation to individual hospitals.
§ Lord GREENHILL of HARROWMy Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Lord. Does he not agree that any continued uncertainty might well diminish the efficiency of the medical school and reduce the standard of the hospitals which serve the very populous area of South-East London?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, we are very dependent on population 122 movement, and there is a considerable population movement in London. We must also take into account that even in London there are areas where medical services are not adequate and it is necessary to shift some of the resources from one area to another. But as far as the King's College Hospital is concerned, it is well sited in relation to the population it serves and there is no intention in the near future of changing its location or its role.
§ Lord PLATTMy Lords, in his original Answer did the noble Lord not say that there was no question of closing any teaching hospital at the present time and that there were no plans for doing so? Does this apply to the Elizabeth Garrett Anderson Hospital, which comes under a teaching AHA?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I was referring to London teaching hospitals. The noble Lord, if he has looked at the Telex, will have seen that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State in fact announced this morning that the Elizabeth Garrett Anderson Hospital will be closed on the 21st July.
§ Lord REIGATEMy Lords, when the noble Lord speaks of no changes "in the near future", how near is the future? Are they good for 10 years, or 20 years?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, the noble Lord would not expect me to put a time on that, but what I should like to say is that all the Regional Health Authorities have been asked to get their Area Health Authorities to prepare an area strategic plan, so that it will be possible to see what needs to be done. I would say to the noble Lord who asked the main Question that the Area Health Authority to which he refers in that Question would be well advised to prepare the strategic plan which is required of it.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, since it takes something like six or seven years for a doctor to qualify, can my noble friend give an assurance that it is not the Government's policy to reduce the intake of medical students into our teaching hospitals, since the shortage of qualified doctors is world-wide?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, we are hoping that the target for the annual student intake of something like 4,000 will be effective from the early 1980s.
§ Lord SANDYSMy Lords, arising out of the noble Lord's reply to the question by the noble Lord, Lord Platt, are the Government aware that the Secretary of State's announcement in regard to the Elizabeth Garrett Anderson Hospital appears to contravene an undertaking given by the noble Lord that a closure of the hospital would not take place without full Parliamentary debate?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, with great respect, this is very wide of the Question. I tried to be courteous to the noble Lord, Lord Platt, and give him an answer, but I do not think I ought to be tempted by the noble Lord who has just sat down.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, is the Minister aware that recently there have been appearing in the newspapers many inaccurate and alarmist reports which are calculated to undermine the confidence of the general public in the National Health Service, which, with all its defects, is still the best in the world? What is to be the practice of the Department of Health and Social Security in dealing with generalised allegations such as these closures; and is it not unsuitable for Questions to be tabled in either House regarding reports in the Press, which would lead to an endless flow of Parliamentary debate if one were to try to refute every single false allegation which was made?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that comment and I would entirely agree with him. I cannot think there is anything likely to cause more alarm than the statement in The Times today, reputed to have been made by Mr. Patrick Jenkin, who yesterday, when referring to the National Health Service and commenting on the present White Paper on public expenditure, said:
We have to live within that, and there is no possibility of extra moneybeing available for the National Health Service in the future.
The Earl of HALSBURYMy Lords, with respect to the time-scale, would the 124 noble Lord tell the House what provision is being made in relation to determining the future of the specialist postgraduate teaching hospitals affiliated to the British Postgraduate Medical Federation? A decision must be taken before next year, and I should be most obliged if the noble Lord could inform the House what is the time-scale on this decision.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I cannot reply to the noble Earl other than to say that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has set up a body known as the London Health Planning Consortium, which is a newly-established body consisting of very senior representatives of my Department, the University Grants Committee, the London University and the Thames Regional Health Authorities. It is going not only to make recommendations to the National Health Service and the academic authorities but to try to advise my right honourable friend what the position is generally. Before any of their recommendations are acted upon there will be wide consultation.
§ Lord LEE of NEWTONMy Lords, is my noble friend aware, in fairness to Mr. Patrick Jenkin whom he quoted, that that gentleman told us that the Tories, if they came into power, would change completely the reorganisation of the Health Service which they carried out in 1973, because of the terrible waste of public money which ensued?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I am being led down a number of avenues which I do not think I ought to pursue.
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I know that the House is very interested in all these questions and the width of the opinion expressed, but we have spent seven minutes on this subject and I hope that it is the feeling of the House that we should go on to the next Question.