§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the statement made at column 466 on the 26th January last, they are now in a position to announce the decision taken on the application of the overbooking compensation scheme to return flights resulting from an original hooking made on airlines operating in the United Kingdom so that a passenger may be covered for the whole of his ticket and not as at present for half of it.
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, the Government remain of the view that more widely based arrangements for overbooking compensation should be implemented, and that a scheme applicable to outward and return flights which was mandatory upon British airlines alone would not be satisfactory. It has long been clear that the most satisfactory way of arriving at such arrangements would be through IATA and the industry itself, and the Government hope that the recommendation of the European Civil Aviation Conference, which the Directors General of Civil Aviation adopted at their recent meeting, will help to bring this about.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, while being glad that the Government apparently approve of what I am trying to get done, may I ask the noble Baroness whether she is aware that this really has become very wearying? Does she recall, from the references I gave her, that her predecessor wrote to me in February saying that he hoped the 502 special committee of IATA would soon reach a speedy conclusion? May I also ask her whether she is aware that I think her reply was slightly misleading? I never asked that British airlines only should have this, but airlines operating in the United Kingdom, which is very different. Does she think she can do anything to hasten matters?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, the noble Baroness, as she says, has been trying for a long time to hasten matters. It is something over two years since she first started raising this subject in your Lordships' House. The only really satisfactory solution to the problem will involve international agreement from negotiations among the international bodies, and these are never things which move very quickly. Some progress has been made over the period; and, of course, the United Kingdom voluntary scheme (which, despite its deficiencies, was a valuable step forward) has increased its membership in that time.
My noble friend asked me why IATA cannot do anything quickly. The European Civil Aviation Conference is a governmental body, and makes recommendations to IATA. It is then for IATA, as the trade body, to get the agreement between all the airlines, such as British Airways, before anything like this can be done. But it is interesting that only 0.04 per cent. of passengers were denied carriage due to overbooking in the United Kingdom, whereas, in so far as United States carriers within the USA are concerned, the figure was 0.3 per cent. So while we do not accept that we should be happy with 0.04 per cent., at least we are considerably better in our service than are many other countries.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, without getting sidetracked on to percentages, which are really meaningless, as the noble Baroness obviously agrees, may I ask her a simple question and hope she can give me a simple answer? As the ECAC Committee has reported to IATA, and as there is to be a special meeting of IATA in Montreal on 30th June and 1st July, after which, I understand, recommendations are to be made to member countries, does she think she could persuade her 503 right honorable friend at the Department of Trade to see that overbooking is included in those recommendations? Further, if I put down a Question for Answer in July, does she think the House could be finished with it once and for all?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, I could not give my noble friend the assurance that if she puts down yet another Question in July we shall then have finished with it. I know how long it takes, when many Governments are involved in international negotiations, to come to any agreement. The recommendation which was made called on IATA to continue the consideration of the problem of overbooking; to pay full attention to the interests of the consumer; and, pending an agreement to a comprehensive solution covering all the countries, to give urgent attention to the introduction of measures of compensation. That recommendation has now gone to IATA, and the member States are bringing it to the notice of their airlines. We hope that IATA will reach agreement on how to tackle the problem without delay. In the meantime, the European Conference will be keeping the matter under review, and member States are expected to advise them on their follow-up action. But I cannot guarantee that I shall be able to give any satisfaction in July.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that it is a very long time since I had any responsibilities, on this side of the House, for consumer affairs; that it was a considerable time before that when the noble Baroness, Lady Burton of Coventry, started this campaign; that we are filled with admiration for her persistence, and that if we are not giving her a great deal of support it is entirely because it appears to be quite unnecessary?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, I would not completely accept that. I acknowledge the persistence of my noble friend in repeatedly bringing this question to the attention of the House, and perhaps one day we shall all be very happy about the results—but not today.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, perhaps I might say just this. 504 Is the House aware that I am very appreciative of what has been said, but would the House and the Minister not agree with me that really all this is quite unnecessary? Can she think of anything more ridiculous than taking 23 months to say that the compensation on an airline ticket shall apply to the whole of it and not to half?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, it is not quite as simple as that, because the return half may not be for flights which are coming back into this country. One may go from here to Tokyo, from Tokyo across to New Zealand and from New Zealand across to Canada, and not even finish up here. It is not simple, but we are doing out best.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether Her Majesty's Government will be represented at this Montreal Conference; and, if so, would it not be a good idea to invite the noble Baroness to attend on their behalf?
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, it is not my privilege to invite the noble Baroness on behalf of the Government, but I will certainly see that today's proceedings are brought to the attention of my right honorable friend so that the British representatives there are aware of the views of the noble Baroness and other Members of this House.
§ Lord GEORGE-BROWNMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that she complicated the simple point of my noble friend unnecessarily? If a ticket from here to Tokyo then takes one on to Canada and then on to New Zealand, it is still the outward journey. There is no return half.