§ 11.12 a.m.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make a Statement on the progress of the discussions on the future of Namibia, and particularly on the decisions of the Security Council of the United Nations.
1065§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, the Security Council met this week and adopted a resolution yesterday calling on the Secretary-General to appoint a Special Representative for Namibia and to submit his recommendations for United Nations involvement. My right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary participated in these discussions and welcomes the adoption of the resolution. The way is now open to rapid implementation of the steps necessary to bring Namibia to independence on a basis which will he acceptable to the international community.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, is the Minister aware how deeply relieved many of us were last night to hear of the decisions of the Security Council? Did they not adopt other resolutions than those which have been mentioned in his concise reply? Is he aware that many of us want sincerely to congratulate the Western delegations—and particularly Mr. Don McHenry, the American leader—on their success, with the support given by the OAU and the front-line African countries to this proposal? Will it not be a magnificent precedent to settle the particular problem of Zimbabwe without force? Walvis Bay has been the difficulty; but has not South Africa forfeited its right to it by its occupation of Namibia? Is it not absolutely necessary for Namibian independence and would it not be like England without London if it did not have the Walvis Bay enclave in its Administration?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, may I, in reply to my noble friend's supplementary question, pay tribute to him personally for the constructive helpfulness he has shown in this matter. He certainly made a contribution to what I believe is probably a durable and peaceful settlement of the future of this territory. This brings me to the third point that he made. I agree entirely that it is perfectly possible that this solution of what we used to call South West Africa, of Namibia, may well help a similar solution in Rhodesia. Let us hope so! He also raised the question of the participation of Africa, its succession to and its support for the Western proposals. This is true. I think 1066 it fortifies what I said yesterday about the need, in solving these constitutional and territorial problems in Africa, to get the Africans as a whole on your side. This has happened in regard to Namibia and we are working to achieve a similar result in Rhodesia. As to Walvis Bay, it is true that the South African Republic rejected the resolution on the Walvis Bay. Their attitude is well known, but they have made clear their willingness to negotiate on the basis of a voluntary act. I think that the whole House, including my noble friend, will welcome South Africa's attitude in this respect.
§ Lord CARRINGTONMy Lords, I think we must keep our fingers crossed. While agreeing that this is a notable success and break-through, might I ask the noble Lord to pursue a little more energetically the suggestion made by the noble Lord, Lord Brockway? There are points of similarity between Namibia and Rhodesia and there are those of us on this side of the House who are increasingly concerned by what seems to be the Government's concentration wholly on the Anglo-American proposals, while the situation is deteriorating very rapidly, when a new departure on the lines of the successful intervention by the United Nations in Namibia might very well be appropriate.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I do not think we disagree with that. More energetically than what?
§ Lord CARRINGTONThan you have so far.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the energy shown in seeking a solution in Namibia is part of the energy with which we are pursuing a similar solution for Rhodesia. I am very glad for the noble Lord's support in this policy. I hope it will not be impaired or disturbed by somewhat ill-considered proposals in the next few weeks which may throw hack the entire progress in Southern Africa. I agree with him, let us build on the Namibian precedent. If we do that, we have greater hope than previously—I make no promises—of a similar solution in Rhodesia.
§ Lord HALEMy Lords, while I agree with all that has been said on both sides, 1067 may I ask my noble friend to bear in mind that time after time it has been argued that the problem of Rhodesia, or Zimbabwe, is an internal matter concerning the relationship of the British Government to a colony, and it is therefore outside the normal jurisdiction and the normal interference of the United Nations. In my time, it has been argued forcibly that this is so. It would be very useful if the noble Lord would add one word to what he said and would say that no academic point will be allowed to hinder or to cause misunderstanding, in the general hope that slaughter may be avoided and peace restored in Zimbabwe and that Namibia will prosper and have all the international assistance possible.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSYes, indeed, my Lords. As the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, rightly said, we must continue to keep our fingers crossed. We are within sight of a peaceful and durable solution, and an equitable one, with a successor State based firmly, we hope, on democratic procedures and continuing its commercial and other relationships with the West, as with other parts of the world, in a civilised and constructive manner. Nevertheless, as my noble friend Lord Hale said, there are still snags on the way. Anybody who has been dealing with these questions will never be assured of the final solution until it is finally promulgated.
What my noble friend had to say about the involvement of the United Nations is of extreme importance. The Security Council recorded only two abstentions, by the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia, but no veto. The two abstentions by those countries are common form on their part in regard to peace-keeping operations, and one must expect this. Here is the Security Council adopting a resolution to ask the Secretary-General to prepare a plan very much on the basis of the five Western Power proposals with the Schedule with which the House is familiar.
I say this in reply to my noble friend: the Secretary-General will now produce this detailed plan, sending his special representative, a citizen of Finland. He will co-operate with the South African administrator in preparing free and fair elections which will elect a constitutional assembly on the basis of which a con 1068 stitution enshrining independence will be adopted. The United Nations is very much present in this and in a very practical and essential way.
§ Lord ORR-EWINGMy Lords, as we are about to have a three months' recess, and, as the position in Rhodesia is deteriorating so fast, will the Government give their assurance that, should it be necessary, they will not hesitate to reconvene Parliament in order to have a report on what is happening in Rhodesia in this long period of Summer recess?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, as the noble Lord knows, I can only undertake to convey what he said through the proper channels to the proper authorities.
§ Lord BOSTON of FAVERSHAMMy Lords, so far as Walvis Bay is concerned, can my noble friend say anything about any plan in the immediate future for further talks involving the South African Government about this? Would he agree that their willingness to negotiate with a future independent Namibia gives grounds for considerable optimism? In case it should be overlooked, would my noble friend also accept that probably in all parts of your Lordships' House the very considerable care that he has taken over a long period of months to keep your Lordships' House fully informed about this matter is very much appreciated. Also, the cautious optimism which he has repeatedly and consistently shown has so far been borne out. Would he also agree that, apart from the members of the five Western Governments involved over a long time in the negotiations, much thanks are also already due to the contact group which has put in a great deal of work?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I very strongly agree about the five Western Powers. It is an example of how European Powers can co-operate very effectively in the interests of peace and an equitable settlement. I am very pleased to join with my noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, in once more paying necessary deference to the willingness of South Africa to negotiate. Not everybody agrees with the internal policies of South Africa in its own country or indeed in South-West Africa. It needs 1069 to be repeated that they have shown a willingness which has been helpful for the total result. I want to say that and repeat it.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, now that there has been—
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, yesterday we reached the horrific figure of 34 minutes for Questions. I hope that I have the House with me when I say that we should now pass on.