§ 3.13 p.m.
§ Lord HATCH of LUSBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have any specific plans to increase British exports to countries in the Third World.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, the Government's plans to help and encourage our exporters are not specifically confined to countries in the Third World. We need to help our exporters increase their share of export markets wherever they may be. The Government have however paid particular attention to the question of trade with the non-oil developing countries, and the conclusions of an Interdepartmental Working Party were published as an Annex to the Government's reply to the First Report 423 from the Select Committee on Overseas Development (Cmnd. 7213).
§ Lord HATCH of LUSBYMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Will he not agree that it is a very tragic commentary on our human planning that there should be 1.5 million unemployed in this country while people are starving for lack of what could be produced by our workers? Is he further aware that the United Kingdom's increase in trade to the Third World is but 75 per cent. of our principal competitors'? Together with his colleagues, will he consider the viability of setting up a special working party from the Ministry of Overseas Development, the Departments of Trade and Industry or the National Enterprise Board continually to seek out markets in the Third World which we can supply from this country?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, ever since I have been in politics the great dilemma has been that in one area of the world there is want and in the other area of the world there is an unsatisfied source of supply. Unfortunately, that is a dilemma which continues. However, we are not in a position to give unlimited charity. The solution to this matter is for this country to have a strong economy. That is the objective of Her Majesty' Government.
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether the plans would include the enforcement of the handling of completed orders which legally now belong to the persons who ordered them? I have in mind the situation as regards the Chilean aircraft. Will the Government support the court which has declared in favour of the dispatch of these planes? They no longer belong to us and we are still holding on to them.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, that is a very sensitive and important point, but I was asked a Question on a wider subject.
§ Lord LEE of NEWTONMy Lords, will my noble friend agree that one of the ways in which we could assist Third World countries is by increasing the value of their exports to us? Am I right in what I hear; that is, that there is a bias in this 424 country against semi-finished products as distinct from raw materials coming in from Third World countries?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, this country's economy is not so strong that it determines the world price of raw materials. That is a world matter; not a purely British matter. In fact, I thought that this country was a major importer of semi-finished products, and I thought that we had a better record than many on this matter.
§ Lord HARMAR-NICHOLLSMy Lords, if I may revert to the Question, is the noble Lord aware that Governments export nothing but words? Is he further aware that those who do export find themselves hampered by Government interference, high taxation and unnecessary interventions by Government? Can he do something about this with his right honourable friend?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, this is a subject in which I am involved and I thought that the exact opposite was the case.
Lord BRUCE of DONINGTONMy Lords, will my noble friend consider asking his right honourable friend to make a survey in depth as to the nature and extent of the selling effort from this country into the countries concerned?—because the prevailing impression in Europe is that the sales effort from this country leaves something to be desired.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I am not one who knocks his country. All things considered, I think that we do pretty well. I cannot remember the figures, but per capita we are one of the major exporters in the world. Perhaps we could do better, but unfortunately exporting is a matter for commercial decision by individual firms and they can do no more than their own financial position permits.
§ Lord HEWLETTMy Lords, will Her Majesty's Government agree that the real duty is to create the conditions in which free enterprise can prosper and exports are made more worthwhile? It is high Government taxation and unnecessary disincentive to sell, even to the Third World—and I speak as one 425 who actually does this rather than one who simply talks about it—that make it extremely difficult for decisions to be made that are viable and in the best interests of both the country and the company.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, the noble Lord is correct about private enterprise; but do not let us forget the very substantial contribution of public enterprise in this field as well.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, arising from the Minister's replies and exchanges about the necessity of exports and imports, may I ask whether Her Majesty's Government are acting in co-operation with the new arm of the United Nations which was established for this purpose, and particularly the proposals of the Group of 77, for a new international economic order?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMYes, my Lords.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, will the noble Lord agree that one valuable method of promoting our exports, particularly to the Third World, is through contributions to international trade fairs? Will he pass on to his right honourable friend the regret which we feel at the way the budget for promoting British stands abroad has, in recent months, been cut back?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, this is a very technical problem which I cannot answer. This matter is under very careful supervision by people who have wide experience of the value of trade fairs.