HL Deb 14 December 1978 vol 397 cc826-37

4.37 p.m.

Lord MELCHETT rose to move, That the draft Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act 1978 (Continuance) (No. 2) Order 1978, laid before the House on 28th November, be approved. The noble Lord said: My Lords, the decision by the Government to recommend the renewal of powers provided by the Emergency Provisions Act for a further six months was not taken lightly. The Government have very carefully considered the balance between maintaining progress towards a normal life in Northern Ireland, and the police and Army's need for additional powers. The Government have no wish to see the emergency powers retained for any longer than is strictly necessary. The time will come when the Government will be able to recommend that certain provisions should be allowed to lapse as being no longer essential. We hope that this will not be too far off, since it can only happen because the improvements in Northern Ireland have continued. As my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has said, we shall be keeping this under the closest review in the next six months. In this review, each provision will be treated on its merits. If we consider that it is justified, the Government will not hesitate to recommend the lapse of particular provisions.

The latest wave of bombings in Northern Ireland is almost certainly an attempt by the Provisional IRA to restore its waning credibility and to stampede the smaller towns in Northern Ireland into calling for the reintroduction of the old security restrictions which have been lifted. These attacks should be seen against an overall continuing decline in the level of violence. Since last June, 27 people have died as the result of terrorist activity compared with 49 in the first half of the year and 30 in the same period last year.

Shooting attacks are down by 30 per cent. compared with last year. While bomb attacks are 25 per cent. up, the total number of cassette incendiary attacks is only 16 per cent. of the total for 1977.

Since last June 10 members of the security forces and their reserves have died as the result of terrorist violence. Members of the Prison Service, the Fire Service and Civilian Search Unit have also been murdered. The overwhelming majority of both communities in Northern Ireland are horrified by these pointless deaths, but the people of Northern Ireland have also shown again recently their determination to see their lives return to normal, and to look forward to a more hopeful future.

The foundation of the Government's security policy is the principle of fair and effective enforcement of the law, within the law, and the bringing of those who break the law to justice through the courts. Achieving the acceptance and increasing the effectiveness of the police in enforcing the law with the minimum of Army support remains a fundamental principle of our security policy. But we have never viewed security policy in isolation; our efforts there must be considered along with efforts to make political progress, and to work for the social and economic development of Northern Ireland.

The Regular Army and the UDR continue to provide valuable support for the police. Now that large areas of Northern Ireland are relatively peaceful, the Army has been able to concentrate its own efforts. The recent reorganisation in a number of UDR battalions is designed to make the Regiment more effective while continuing its build-up. The strength of the regular RUC in October this year passed the 6,000 mark, and a study will be made over the next few months to decide whether the present and anticipated demands would justify increasing the strength beyond the present ceiling of 6,500. Alongside its other work, the RUC is using its growing specialist skills to investigate sophisticated economic crime. The police also place particular emphasis on crime prevention, especially among young people. Co-operation across the border between the two police forces has continued to develop. Regular meetings are held between senior officers to exchange information and co-ordinate their efforts.

The Government's policy is that all those convicted in open court by the due process of the law should serve their sentences in the same way. No one is sentenced to prison in Northern Ireland because of their political beliefs, and the Government are firm in their determination to phase out special category status. Considerable progress has been achieved in Northern Ireland, but the Government are certainly not over-optimistic. We believe that our policies are the right ones, and we look forward to the day when the police can operate without any need of support from the Army, and when this thoroughly distasteful emergency legislation will no longer be necessary. My Lords, I beg to move.

Moved, That the draft Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act 1978 (Continuance) (No. 2) Order 1978, laid before the House on 28th November, be approved.

—(Lord Melchett.)

4.42 p.m.

Lord BELSTEAD

My Lords, the powers under the Emergency Provisions Act need to be renewed at six-monthly intervals, but I join with the noble Lord, Lord Melchett, in making it clear that we on this side of the House do not regard this as implying that these powers are taken lightly, or should ever be considered to be automatically renewed. However, during the past two weeks or so, tragically, the deputy governor of the Maze Prison has been murdered in his home, and only three days ago two prison officers were attacked with gunfire in Belfast. I give those just as two examples of attacks made on people whose work is to protect the safety of the citizen, and to guard the business and industrial community on whom the future of the Province depends. Of course, the security forces are in the greatest danger and, as I have shown, the Prison Service also. But the attacks of the IRA appear to be aimed at anyone who contributes to the running of the public services in Northern Ireland. Earlier this week, three people working in the postal sorting office at Lisburn were seriously injured by a time bomb. So that emergency powers which, as your Lordships know, include powers of search and arrest, remain, in my opinion, necessary.

Therefore, of course, from this side of the House, I am supporting the Government in the presentation of this order.

It is clear from the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Melchett, that the emergency powers are being used to considerable effect. Despite the intense bombing campaign in country towns in Northern Ireland during the month of November, the security restrictions, which the noble Lord mentioned—the barriers in town centres outside Belfast, which have been removed—have not reappeared, and I take this opportunity to say that I am sure that that is absolutely right. Clearly, the attitude of people in Northern Ireland to the IRA is increasingly one of rejection of the bombing and the murdering which they perpetrate for no cause but the IRA's own, and the more it can be shown that the people of Northern Ireland are determined to live as normal a life as possible, in which there is no path for terror and subversion, then the greater is the hope for the future.

There is just one question that I should like to ask. The noble Lord did not mention this in his speech, but I very much welcome the news which was given out last September that a fifth resident infantry battalion had been sent to Northern Ireland. May I ask whether it is the Government's policy to continue to replace the four-month tours with resident battalions? I believe that it is important that this process should continue. In reply to that question, the noble Lord might be able to give me some information about the building of new barracks in order for that policy to continue to be pursued. Clearly, it is a necessary part of that policy that the RUC should continue to be strengthened both in numbers and in influence. I very much welcome the information which the noble Lord gave in his speech, that the RUC has now achieved 6,000 Regulars and that a review as to whether the ceiling of 6,500 is right will shortly be undertaken.

Finally—I think it is important that this should be said in this House—may I say that I support fully the noble Lord's very brief statement about the phasing out completely of special category status. If anybody has any doubts about the lengths to which terrorists will go to try to gain their ends—the obvious example, of course, is the desecration of "H" block at the Maze prison—let us reflect that the drying up of funds for the IRA from abroad during this year, which undoubtedly has occurred, has resulted in huge hauls being taken in robberies in the Republic to try to make up the IRA's depleted reserves. The fact of the matter is that the IRA owe allegiance to no one. Their method is terror and their objective is anarchy. Although we regret them, the powers which are continued in this order still remain necessary.

4.47 p.m.

Lord HAMPTON

My Lords, this is not, I believe, the time for a lengthy debate on Government policy in Northern Ireland, but I should like to make two points. First, the majority of my Parliamentary colleagues support this order. We feel that it would be disastrous at the present time to pull our troops out of the Province. It can be said that we are playing into the hands of the IRA when we too openly discuss the possibility. We regret this, but we believe that the indisputable necessity for the order remains.

Secondly, if he is prepared to give it, I should like an assurance from the noble Lord, Lord Melchett, regarding what is going on in the Maze prison. On two occasions recently I have read that we are being blackmailed over what is going on in "H" block—first, in an article which appeared in The Times a few weeks ago and, secondly, in a speech by the Official Opposition spokesman, Mr. Airey Neave, in the debate on this order in the other place. The Oxford dictionary defines blackmail, in current usage, as taking place in connection with the concealment of discreditable secrets. Therefore, I should be grateful if the noble Lord could confirm once again that we have nothing to hide and that the reputedly filthy conditions in "H" block are caused solely by the attitudes of the inmates themselves.

It is said—and the noble Lord, Lord Belstead, has referred to this—that funds from sympathetic quarters in the United States are still finding their way, even if in less quantity, to the IRA. Quite contrary to having anything to hide, can we not reaffirm that we are dealing with crazed fanatics who deserve no support from right thinking people?

4.49 p.m.

Lord HYLTON

My Lords, I am sure there is general agreement that this order is one which in no circumstances should go through "on the nod." It would be a very great pity if the House did not give the order as careful an examination as it gave earlier today to the question of the conservation of animals and wild plants and, later, to the question of street offences and loitering. We are dealing with matters of life and death and, naturally, one proceeds very deliberately.

I welcome the announcement that there will be a review during the coming six months of the emergency provisions legislation. I think that this will be particularly welcome to the Northern Ireland Peace Movement. For my part, I can see that the special powers of arrest and the suspension of trial by jury may well have to go on for some considerable time. Nevertheless, it is encouraging that there will be a review.

May I turn for a moment or two to the report published in January 1975 of the committee chaired by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Gardiner, which considered measures to deal with terrorism in Northern Ireland in the context of civil liberties and human rights. The Committee made 47 recommendations and I should like to ask how many of those have by now been implemented or acted upon in some other form. Perhaps I may just quote from paragraph 21 of the report. The first two sentences state that: the continued existence of emergency powers should be limited, both in scope and duration. Though there are times when they are necessary for the preservation of human life they can, if prolonged, damage the fabric of the community and they do not provide lasting solutions". Damage to the fabric of the community is what I think we are very much concerned about. I understand that under Section 11 of the emergency legislation arrests have been running at about the rate of 2,500 per year during the last three years, including 1978 up to date. Those arrested may be detained for 72 hours without being brought before a magistrate or a court and they may be kept isolated and without access by anybody during that period. I think that is what is liable to cause damage to the fabric of the communities and one can well understand the anxiety of parents whose children may disappear in the middle of the night or at any time of the day, and they will be anxious because they do not know whether they have been kidnapped, whether they have been murdered, or what has happened to them.

There is a long-term question, to which I have referred, and there is also a short-term question which involves safeguards, both for individuals and for families. In February 1976 the International Commission of Jurists made a submission to the United Nations Commission on Human Rights and that submission contained 27 recommendations. I should like to ask the Government whether they consider that those recommendations are applicable to Northern Ireland. Eight of those recommendations have been picked out by the Northern Ireland Peace Movement as being important interim safeguards, likely to mitigate the problems that arise under the Act. The selected recommendations deal with access by families to arrested persons, access to legal and medical advice, questions about interrogation and confessions. Can the Government offer any hope of some improvements on these eight recommendations?

I should like to go on to welcome the detailed written reply made by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on the 8th June of this year, at columns 229 to 234 of the Commons Official Report, but there are a number of questions which arise out of that. First, when do the Government expect to receive the report from the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, on the workings of the Prevention of Terrorism Act? This has an important bearing on the question of access to legal advice by arrested suspects. Secondly, following the submission by Amnesty International of 78 cases of alleged maltreatment of suspects, have complaints now been submitted to the Director of Public Prosecutions, and has the Director of Public Prosecutions reached any general findings and conclusions?

I go on to welcome the establishment of the Committee of Inquiry, under Judge Bennett, into police practices and procedures on the interrogation of suspects, and I would like to ask when the report is expected from that committee. I am very glad to know that the report will be published when it is available.

The next question concerns the Police Complaints Board. Has that Board reported any pattern of irregularity in arrest, detention and interrogation of suspects, since 1st September 1977? Another point mentioned in the Secretary of State's Statement concerns closed circuit television, which the Chief Constable of Northern Ireland was considering using in order to monitor interrogations while they were actually taking place. May I ask whether this equipment is now in service?

Finally, I come to the difficulties and problems that arise concerning persons aged under 18. They, as we heard earlier, are very much subject to unemployment. Their idealism can perhaps more easily be manipulated by terrorists and the advocates of violence. They are more likely to be subject to intimidation, and when they are arrested and held without communication the distress to their families is naturally greater than in the case of adults. Can we hope to see some special safeguards for the under-18s, particularly on these points of access to doctors and lawyers, and perhaps even to independent lay advice? Will it be made a practice that the families of the under-18s will be informed of their arrest and of where they are being held at the very earliest possible opportunity? If the Government can be forthcoming on some of these points, both long-term and short-term, I think they will be doing a real work of peace-making and helping forward reconciliation generally.

4.57 p.m.

Lord MELCHETT

My Lords, perhaps I can try to deal with the various points that have been raised. The noble Lord, Lord Belstead, mentioned the security barriers and the fact that in spite of the recent bombing campaign there has been no significant demand from local people that these should be reinstated in the towns affected by the latest round of bombing. I think it is particularly important to recognise, first of all, that the Government are very responsible to local people's views on these matters, and, secondly, the significance of the failure of the IRA to bomb people into taking a pessimistic view of the future, as was clearly their intention when they started on the recent wave of attacks.

The noble Lord also asked me about resident army battalions. As he may know, there are already six units in Northern Ireland serving 18-month tours and the Government intend to introduce a seventh as soon as suitable arrangements can be made for barrack accommodation and for housing the families of those concerned. Certainly, the Government's view is that there is a developing role to be played by army units staying in Northern Ireland for an 18-month period, although there will be a need for some other units to continue to serve four-month periods. The Government are still looking at the possibilities of barrack accommodation and housing in the Craigavon-Portadown area but no final decision has yet been reached. Whatever is decided will, of course, be discussed with those locally concerned.

The noble Lord, Lord Hampton, mentioned the Maze prison and the campaign by some prisoners there not to wear prison uniform and not to be treated in the same way as the majority of people in prisons in Northern Ireland. He referred to the use of the word "blackmail" which I do not think is a term which I, my right honourable or honourable friends have used. Certainly the Government have nothing to hide. The position is perfectly clear. The eight blocks comprise, in fact, very modern prison accommodation, certainly by the standards of many prisons in Great Britain. They provide extremely good accommodation for prisoners and the prison has many modern and well-equipped facilities.

Some of the prisoners have decided that they do not wish to make use of those facilities; that they do not wish to wear the clothing provided for them; that they do not wish to take the hour's exercise which is available to them each day and so on. That is entirely their choice. Of course, they have gone a great deal further than that in recent months and smeared excrement over the cells and made it extremely difficult to keep the cells clean or hygienic. However, the Government have done all in their power. I think that it is important that your Lordships should pay a tribute to the prison officers who have been involved in the work of cleaning the cells. They are now all regularly cleaned with modern high-pressure steam equipment. The information I have is that there are currently no signs of any medical problems and that is, of course, watched extremely carefully.

The term "blackmail" is only appropriate because it is extremely difficult to persuade people throughout the world that this is simply a self-inflicted campaign by those concerned. We find that many people unfortunately believe the propaganda which is put out to the effect that this is being deliberately imposed upon them, by the British Government. That is where the element of blackmail arises. I am sure that all noble Lords would wish to ensure that at least people make a judgment on these very difficult issues on the facts as they actually are.

Lord BELSTEAD

My Lords, I should like to raise one question. I entirely agree with what the noble Lord has just said. I understood that in another place a factual account of what is provided in the prison Service—particularly the Maze prison in Northern Ireland—is to be placed in the Library of the House of Commons by the Government. I was wondering whether it might be possible for the same facility to be granted in regard to the Library of your Lordships' House.

Lord MELCHETT

My Lords, certainly I shall ensure that that is done, and I will let noble Lords who have expressed an interest during today's debate know when the document is available.

The noble Lord, Lord Hylton, asked me about the recommendations of the inquiry conducted by my noble and learned friend Lord Gardiner. I do not have the exact figures regarding all the recommendations which the noble Lord mentioned, but I can tell him that the majority of those recommendations were implemented by the Government. If the noble Lord were interested I could let him know which recommendations, if any, have not been implemented and the reasons for that.

The noble Lord also asked me about various matters connected with the questioning by the police of people whom they suspect of breaking the law in Northern Ireland and the procedures under which that is done, the conditions under which it is done and so on. As the noble Lord will know, an independent committee of inquiry was set up following the report by Amnesty International about conditions in Northern Ireland. The inquiry is chaired by His Honour Judge Bennett and its terms of reference include consideration of police procedures and practices in Northern Ireland relating to the interrogation of persons suspected of schedule offences, and the operation of procedures for dealing with complaints against the police.

I think that it would be most sensible for me not to attempt to cover the ground which the inquiry is currently working on, but to give your Lordships the assurance, which my right honourable friend has already given, that the report will be published when it is received by the Government. I would suggest that that would be the time appropriate for your Lordships' House to consider the many very important issues which the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, has raised and which were raised in a number of previous reports—in particular, the report by Amnesty International which led to the setting up of this particular inquiry. The inquiry has been hard at work and the report is not now very far away. I should imagine that it will cover, if not all, almost all the particular points which the noble Lord raised with me. I should prefer to leave it that we would have that report and look at the particular points which the noble Lord has raised.

There is one point that I can cover now: it concerns the particular cases that were mentioned in Amnesty's report. The fact of the matter is that Amnesty has not felt able to furnish the Director of Public Prosecutions with details of the allegations which were made anonymously in the report. Therefore, it has not been possible to follow up those specific allegations. However, it is, of course, open for anyone to furnish the Director of Public Prosecutions with details of specific cases if that is their wish.

Baroness GAITSKELL

My Lords, I should like to ask the Minister why Amnesty has not been able to publish the results of its report, because this has occasionally happened before in the United Nations regarding other countries.

Lord MELCHETT

My Lords, Amnesty has told my right honourable friend the Secretary of State that it does not feel able to furnish the details of particular cases because they were given to it in the first place on the basis that they would not be passed on to anyone other than those in the Amnesty organisation. I understand that that is the reason they have given.