§ 11.9 a.m.
§ Lord MONSONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what representations they have made about the continuing artillery bombardment of the residential areas of East Beirut and other parts of the Lebanon by the armed forces of a foreign Power, with a consequent heavy loss of civilian life.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, together with our partners in the Nine we have made a number of representations in Syria, Lebanon and Israel urging all concerned to exercise restraint so as to bring an end to the fighting and facilitate the Lebanese Government's task of restoring peace and security throughout the whole of Lebanon.
§ Lord MONSONMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply and I trust that particular representations have been made to Syria on this issue. Would he not agree that the devastating artillery and rocket bombardment of residential 1292 areas by foreign troops, coming as it does on top of everything else that has happened over the last couple of years, is forcing the very people for whose particular protection the State of Lebanon was carved out of the defunct Ottoman Empire in 1920, to emigrate in ever-increasing numbers from the land where their families have lived for 1,300 to 1,400 years? Given the uniqueness of this community, is this not almost tantamount to cultural genocide?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, there is a good deal in what the noble Lord says. Here is an example of a State which survived and flourished on the basis of unity between at least two major faiths and, it may be, races. It is a tragedy that that experiment, momentarily perhaps, has broken down; but reports indicate that the position is at least being held through the intervention of the United Nations interim force and through the diplomatic representations made by the Presidency of the Community on behalf of us all, and by the United States. We are continuing those representations, and I would hope that all the major parties concerned—and I now address myself equally to the Syrians, to Israel and to the Maronites—will harken to the advice given by the Community and by the United States to all three of them, to restrain themselves and to come together as soon as possible to recreate, if at all possible, the basis for the re-unification of the Lebanon on the basis described by the noble Lord.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, can my noble friend say what effect the representations of the Nine have had so far? Can he confirm whether or not the situation has deteriorated during the last few days, especially as regards the position of the Lebanese Christians? Finally, does he agree that it is rather anomalous, to say the least, that a peace-keeping force should be committed to the objective of a greater Syria?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I do not think there has been any marked deterioration in the situation, as my noble friend suggests. Of course, I share with him concern that there should not be any such deterioration. The Syrians are in the Lebanon at the invitation of the President of the Lebanon, 1293 as Head of the Government and of the State, and as part of the Arab deterrent force. It may well be that their reaction early in July in East Beirut was somewhat excessive, but there was some provocation, which is why I took up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Monson, that these representations should be equally addressed to all concerned in the area. As to the latter part of the question of my noble friend Lord Segal, before answering, I should like to think very carefully about what he has just said.
§ Lord DRUMALBYNMy Lords, what is the position of forces which have been invited to come from one country into another country, and which that other country then wants to go back to their own country? Have the Syrian forces been asked to go back to their own country and, if so, what is the position?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the authority whereby Syrian forces are in the Lebanon is, as I have said, the invitation of the sovereign Government of the Lebanon and they responded as part of the Arab deterrent force. I should expect that any invitation or request for them to leave should properly come, at least in the first instance, from the sovereign authority of the Lebanon.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, is the strength of the interim force such that such a request could, in fact, be made?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSI think so, my Lords, given further time and opportunity for the interim force. I imagine that the noble Lord is referring to UNIFIL. Already the interim force has done a remarkably good job in the face of very heavy odds in Southern Lebanon. One might say that it has discharged half its function. The other half is to help to restore order and the unified sovereignty of the true Government of the Lebanon throughout the country. I see no prospect of UNIFIL being removed. Indeed, I go so far as to say, on the basis of what it has already achieved, against great odds, that I anticipate that in September, when the question of the renewal of the mandate to it is considered, there will he very widespread support for such a renewal.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, does my noble friend agree that the situation could be improved if the Lebanese Government could be persuaded to withdraw its earlier invitation, and if the Syrian forces now in Lebanon could be replaced by forces of other nations?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the first part of my noble friend's suggestion led me to think along the lines that, if there were anything like an abrupt removal of the Syrian forces, a vacuum would be created which might be disastrous. However, he followed it up with the caveat that he did not anticipate such a vacuum; that it might be filled by some other externally recruited force. That is for consideration. At the moment, the relationship of the Syrian forces is to the sovereign Government of Lebanon. The relationship of UNIFIL is to us all, as embodied in the office of the Secretary-General.
§ Lord WIGGMy Lords, does my noble friend agree that if an invitation is issued to the Lebanese Government to withdraw their invitation to the Syrians to give some military support, that should be balanced by an invitation to the Israeli Government to neutralise the extreme Zionist influence inside that Government which is hell bent on expansion, irrespective of the consequences not only to the Middle East but to the world as a whole?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, of course my noble friend emphasises the importance in this area and in these mattes s of having an even-handed, balanced approach, and of making suggestions and putting requirements to everybody concerned, and he has named at least two of the parties concerned. As to the argument which he introduced in regard to Israeli motivation, I am sure that the House and my noble friend would not wish me to follow him along that track today.
§ Lord MONSONMy Lords, will the noble Lord acknowledge that Britain has a particular moral responsibility in this matter, in so far as if Britain, together with France, had acted in a firmer and more decisive manner in 1936, when Hitler marched into the Rhineland, the whole tragic and terrible chain of events which has led indirectly to the present situation in the Lebanon might never have occurred?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, that is an interesting and no doubt cogent proposition. As I said in reply to my noble friend Lord Wigg, I am sure that he, and my noble friend Lord Montgomery equally, would not expect me at Question Time to engage in a somewhat unrewarding—however interesting—examination of the consequences of history.