§ 3.15 p.m.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government to state the percentage increase in rents of council houses and privately rented houses and flats respectively since October 1977.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY of STATE, DEPARTMENT of the ENVIRONMENT (Baroness Birk)My Lords, in the three years up to October 1977, registered private rents and council rents rose by about the same amount. We do not yet have full information about rent increases since October 1977.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, surely the Government ought to be in possession of this very important information. Is my noble friend aware that rent officers have been advising that rents should be increased for regulated tenants, apart from controlled tenants who are in a different category, by more than 60 per cent.? In some cases I understand it has gone beyond 100 per cent. Has my noble friend seen the pamphlet issued by the Labour Party—the Party to which she happens to belong, as I do? It says in this pamphlet that the Government appear to be dissatisfied with the operations of some of the rent officers, that the whole of the rent procedure is confusing and difficult for tenants to understand, and that the Government are proposing to create another tribunal to consider the whole position.
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, it is perfectly true that in some areas re-registered rents have risen, or appear to have risen, considerably. But it must also be remembered that rents which were reregistered in 1977 were last fixed in 1974, or in many cases even earlier. This is why the percentage increase often seems so large. Nevertheless, between 1974 and 1977 the retail price index rose by about 68 per cent., and the index of repair and maintenance costs rose by about 57 per cent. Average earnings 1331 increased by 61 per cent., and registered rents increased by around 47 per cent. In answer to the latter part of my noble friend's question, it is perfectly true that the consistency of rents is something which is causing the Government concern, and this is being looked at in the Rent Act review which is currently being undertaken.
§ Lord MERRIVALEMy Lords, the noble Baroness mentioned a certain number of percentages. Would she agree that this high increase in rents, especially for London, for the three-year period ending in December 1977, is causing concern to many tenants? Would she not agree that in effect the rise in rents has far exceeded the fall in the purchasing power of the pound over that same period? Would she further agree that rents which are fixed for a further three-year period should reflect the very great downward trend in inflation which exists at the moment in this country?
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, as to the first point, London is always a more expensive place in which to live than anywhere else. The extraordinary thing is that over London as a whole registered rents are rising less fast than in the rest of England and Wales. I accept, as I said in answer to my noble friend, that this varies from place to place. A lot will depend, as I have already said, on when the rent was last fixed. Another factor may be a marked change in property values in a particular area which has become more popular. I appreciate, and so do the Government, that these factors cause problems for long-standing tenants. Nevertheless, on the whole—and I cannot go into individual cases—the rents are not out of line with the other figures and percentages that I have given.
§ Lord MERRIVALEMy Lords, will the noble Baroness answer the last point in my question?
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, do not the figures that the noble Baroness has given indicate, contrary to what the noble Lord has just said, that rents in the past three years have increased by very much less than the average retail price index? Does not the noble Baroness honestly think that the three year interval 1332 between the fixing of fair rents, which was originally decided upon in the 1965 Rent Act, is wholly inappropriate in an era of such rapid inflation as we now face? Will the Government therefore consider introducing more frequent reviews so as to enable private landlords at least to stay in business for the time being until their role can be taken over by other authorities?
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, this question of the period for which rents are fixed is, of course, something that is being looked at again in the rent review; but it is a very difficult point because the tenants very often want to feel the security of knowing what their rent will be for a certain number of years. When, as I said in answer to my noble friend, the change has been left for five or six years, then I appreciate that the increase seems proportionately high.
Lord JANNERMy Lords, may 1 ask my noble friend whether she is aware that rents are being increased by 200 and 300 per cent. and that people of modest means, many of them pensioners, are not able to retain the places they have lived in for 20 or 30 years? Is she aware that it is high time that some kind of protection was given to those regulated tenancies, similar to the protection which was given by the Leasehold Reform Act to those who had occupied their houses for over 20 years? May I ask my noble friend to consider whether it is not high time—particularly at the present moment, taking into consideration that tenants themselves have created values for their houses by paying rates, and in many cases rates of a very high figure? Today that imposition has been placed upon them, and would my noble friend be good enough to go into the whole matter while she is dealing with the Rent Acts?
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, the only point I would add to those I have made in answer to other questions and which apply to the series of questions asked of me by my noble friend is that, first, rent increases are phased over three years and rent allowances are available for those who have difficulty with their rent. That does not only apply to very low rents. Referring to the other points that have been raised, I think it would be for the convenience of the House if, 1333 when a Question of this sort is put down and more information is wanted, it is put in the form of a Question for Written Answer, in which case it would be possible to go into the complications of the matter at some length.
§ Lord MERRIVALEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness just one more question for clarification? Does she not agree that the percentages of rent increases quoted by other noble Lords—bearing in mind also a figure which has not been mentioned in this House, but quite authoritatively, that the purchasing power of the pound has declined by only 36 per cent. over a three-year period ending in 1977—relating to the same period, are unreasonable; and should not rents in the future reflect the lower inflation rate now appertaining?
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, at the moment we are discussing rents that were fixed some time ago. It is true that there has been an element of speculation about all this. As we are still gathering information, I was unable to give my noble friend in my original Answer all the full facts from October 1977, because, as I am sure your Lordships will appreciate, it takes time to collect information.
§ The LORD PRIVY SEAL (Lord Peart)My Lords, I hope that my noble friend will realise we have had a good run on this Question, and indeed he did very well on a previous Question. I think we should now proceed.