§ 2.47 p.m.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how the Manpower Services Commission monitors the effectiveness of its programmes for workers who suffer disadvantages in the search for jobs because of race or colour, and what new initiatives it has taken on this matter during the year to 31st March 1978.
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, this Answer is somewhat long, but it is an important Question. I am informed by the Manpower Services Commission that the following initiatives have been taken during the year to 31st March 1978. The Special Employment Needs Development Programme was introduced in autumn 1977 for a one-year experimental period. This programme gives special help to job seekers who are faced with difficulties, other than 1153 disability, which prevent them from entering or settling in work. This includes difficulties arising because of race or colour. Information will be gathered on the kind of people who are helped and on the success achieved in assisting them to secure employment or training.
The MSC have for some time funded experimental training courses provided by voluntary organisations for young people from ethnic minorities who need to be approached other than through public placing services. Five such experiments began during the year in question. All courses are closely monitored with special attention being paid to the rate of placing after courses, the acquisition of skill and knowledge and the effectiveness of any life and social skills training or other special features. Two pilot language courses for unemployed immigrants have been held at West Yorkshire Language Link and Waltham Forest CFE. The courses are currently being evaluated.
In setting up the new Youth Opportunities Programme account was taken of the needs of deprived young people including those from ethnic minorities. A section of the Special Programmes Division head office has special responsibility for promoting schemes for disadvantaged young people and for monitoring the effectiveness of the new programmes in catering for the needs of these young people. Statistics gathered under the new programme will include information on country of origin of participants and their parents. The MSC recommended the appointment of 20 "outreach" officers who would have special responsibility for helping those who do not register as unemployed. In particular this provision, which is being made by the Careers Service, will help members of ethnic minorities who are alienated and out of touch with the statutory services.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that that is an extremely useful reply, summarising the work of the Manpower Services Commission over the past year, which will be helpful to those who have to try to co-operate with it in its programmes? Did the noble Lord say that, in monitoring the effectiveness of the programmes, records would be kept of the ethnic origin of those assisted? I understand that will he the case in the new programmes which were 1154 announced in February. If that is so, could the Minister say whether it is the general policy of Her Majesty's Government that, in assessing the effects of schemes designed partly to benefit ethnic minorities, there will be a general requirement that ethnic records should be kept? For example, should they be kept by the local authorities, who are under an obligation under Section 71 of the Race Relations Act, to apply services for the benefit of ethnic minorities within their areas?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, I regret I am unable to give an immediate answer to the noble Lord, but I will certainly obtain the information and see that he is advised.
§ Lord CARR of HADLEYMy Lords, does not the response to these last two Questions stress the need for something we have not yet got in this country; namely, a genuine strategy for reducing unemployment?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, this is a problem not related to Britain alone: it is being considered by the European Communities and many other nations. We ourselves have a policy, but the noble Lord's Party policy differs from ours.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, while greatly appreciating that detailed reply, may I ask whether the noble Lord made particular reference to young people? Is he aware that they suffer from two frustrations? First, they are often in conflict with their families because they have learned new behaviour in this country; and, secondly, they are in conflict with society because so many of them are unemployed. Will Her Majesty's Government show continued energy and activity in trying to solve the problem of unemployed young people?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, that is the very purpose of the reply that I have given. Furthermore, as mentioned in the Answer to the first Question of the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, special information is being given to careers officers so that they can appreciate all the difficulties of background that a great number of people do not appreciate.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, obviously these programmes or, anything like them, do not eliminate unemployment. Will the noble Lord confirm that, under the Youth Opportunities Programme, in a full year 234,000 jobs will be created for 16, 17 and 18-year-olds? Will there be statistics published regularly of how many young people have been helped under these programmes, giving details of the ethnic minorities, where applicable, to which they belong?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYYes, my Lords, statistics will be published and the Department of Employment Gazette will provide the information. I have some available, and the noble Lord can obtain it.
§ Lord HARMAR-NICHOLLSIs the noble Lord aware that, if ethnic groups are discriminated against in the report, as is suggested, it can only be a breeding ground for trouble? One group or other, on reading the figures, are bound to protest that they are not getting the same treatment or the same emphasis on help as others. Is the noble Lord aware that there is no difference between what any of us want, but that this business of identifying the various groups in respect of help received may well be grounds for creating the kind of trouble that we are all trying to avoid?
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, there is no question of discrimination so far as the Government, or the Manpower Services Commission, are concerned. This is only a facet of a special problem related to the whole picture. Unfortunately, so far as discrimination is concerned, it is in the hearts and minds of people who should know better. That adds to the problem.