HL Deb 03 May 1977 vol 382 cc890-3

2.43 p.m.

Lord WINSTANLEY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will review the duties and functions of the Department of Health and Social Security's regional medical officers to avoid the duplication of effort and waste of resources resulting from the present arrangements for the re-examination of persons advised by their general practitioners to refrain from work.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, the Government cannot accept the noble Lord's premise. The reference of claims to the Regional Medical Service for a second medical opinion on the claimant's incapacity for work is an essential part of the procedures for controlling claims for incapacity benefits, and at this stage we see no justification for a change in procedure.

Lord WINSTANLEY

My Lords, will the noble Lord accept that I have a very high regard for these doctors and I seek merely to ensure that their time is used profitably? Perhaps I may refer the noble Lord to his previous Answer on this subject. Will he agree that for these doctors annually to spend thousands of hours in correspondence with general practitioners—it is considered that about 500,000 patients a year do not need re-examining—or to spend even more hours examining 240,000 people annually merely to decide that what the general practitioners said is right, is perhaps not the best possible use of highly-trained medical manpower?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I do not agree with the noble Lord. It is estimated that in the current year the Government, and therefore the people of this country, will be spending about £1,100 million on incapacity benefits. It is essential that people who claim such benefit must meet the basic requirement; namely, that they are incapacitated. I am sorry to say this, but it is essential to check that people are entitled to the money. As I pointed out to the noble Lord last March, 29 per cent. or 88,000 of those who had been claiming benefit and who had been examined—I think that we examined 300,000—were found to be capable of work. When such a vast sum of money is involved it is essential that we make these checks.

Lord SEGAL

My Lords, although I accept that the present system of referral to regional medical officers is, on the whole, working fairly satisfactorily, can my noble friend say what percentage of patients ask for signing-off certificates rather than face a first examination by regional medical officers? Can he also say whether any record is kept of the doctors whose patients are in the habit of signing off rather than having to face this examination?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, the only information that I can give is that which I gave to the noble Lord, Lord Winstanley. It was on 3rd March last when I pointed out that there was adequate information that, of the 440,000 people who were not examined, 224,000 were so incapacitated that they were entitled to their benefit. It is a question of how one looks at these matters. However, 46,000 terminated their claims after they had received notices to attend for examination. That is as far as the statistics go in this matter. I cannot be more helpful to my noble friend.

Lord SEGAL

My Lords, can my noble friend answer my second question as to whether any record is kept of the doctors whose patients are in the habit of asking for signing-off certificates? It is a very important point which needs following up.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I do not know the answer to that question. I know that, together with the advice given to our local offices by our medical staff at the Department, there are control periods for each complaint or disease. If a certificate exceeds that period, some kind of investigation is undertaken. However, I cannot say whether some kind of blacklist is kept of those doctors who appear to be doing this repeatedly.

Lord WINSTANLEY

My Lords, will the noble Lord at least consult the regional medical officers to see whether they have suggestions to make of ways in which they can spend their time a little more profitably and efficiently?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, from what I know of our medical staff in the Department, they are not loath to come forward with suggestions if they believe that the Service can be improved. However, I shall pass on the observation.

Lord BLYTON

My Lords, does not the Minister think that his answers are too long-winded and that they give rise to too many supplementary questions?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I am not sure whether I have understood the point, but I think the noble Lord is probably criticising the amount of information that I give to your Lordships' House. Perhaps I am in error in thinking that, when a Member of your Lordships' House asks a question, he or she is entitled to a full reply.