HL Deb 30 June 1977 vol 384 cc1221-2

3.13 p.m.

Lord O'NEILL of the MAINE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware of the condition of the catalpa trees in New Palace Yard; and what they intend to do to save these trees from possible death.

The PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY of STATE, DEPARTMENT of the ENVIRONMENT (Baroness Birk)

My Lords, these splendid old trees now in leaf are well past their normal life-span. The construction of the underground car park and last year's drought affected them badly. Unfortunately, nothing can be done to rejuvenate them and, if deterioration continues, replacement is the only answer.

Lord O'NEILL of the MAINE

I hope the Government will accept advice on this matter, my Lords. Are the Government quite sure that these fine trees are condemned to death because of the building of this expensive car park and the unfortunate drought which followed it? I hope the Government will make every effort to save some of the finest examples in this country of the Indian bean tree.

Baroness BIRK

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that he is pushing at a very open door. At the time when the plans were put forward for the construction of the underground car park it was certainly the view of my Department that the trees should if possible be saved, and in fact they were. We get advice from the Advisory Committee on Forestry. It is now simply a question of whether the trees deteriorate even more. There is also the fact that tree surgery must be carried out frequently because of the danger of a branch knocking off the odd MP now and then—

Several noble Lords: Shame!

Baroness BIRK

—and that must be taken into account as well. However, I can assure the noble Lord that personally I would do anything to save any tree.

Lord DAVIES of LEEK

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, despite the fact they may knock off the odd MP now and then, some of us have great affection for these catalpa trees and would like to know whether dendrologists were approached for advice before the underground labour was undertaken? Is she further aware that we believe that these trees could still be saved if first-class advice from dendrologists was obtained?

Baroness BIRK

My Lords, we get absolutely first-class and expert advice from the Advisory Committee on Forestry. As my noble friend knows, the plan was agreed by another place for the reconstruction and landscaping, and a decision was taken to keep the old trees. Nevertheless, the change in the water level due to the work that had to be undertaken must have some effect on them. The trees are now about 110 years old and their normal life-span is 80, so really nature is taking its course.

The Marquess of ABERDEEN and TEMAIR

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware—of course she is, and I apologise for wandering so far to the left of my normally independent posture—that the catalpa tree, the Indian bean tree, is of United States origin and that, if these trees have to go, it would be the very greatest pity if they are not replaced?

Baroness BIRK

My Lords, three new catalpas have been planted alongside them, and I assure the noble Marquess that if they have to go there is simply no question of their not being replaced.

Viscount BARRINGTON

My Lords, may I ask the Minister to say how many MPs are equal to one Indian bean tree, whether it is a live bean tree or a has-been tree?

Baroness BIRK

The noble Viscount must work that out for himself, my Lords.