§ 2.44 p.m.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress has been made at the Geneva conference of delegations from the United States of America, the Soviet Union and the United Kingdom on proposals to ban nuclear tests.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, consultations between representatives of the United Kingdom, United States and Soviet Union on the negotiation of a comprehensive test ban treaty began in Geneva on 13th July. These tripartite discussions have got off to a serious and useful start and are still continuing. We expect a pause shortly in which each delegation will report to its own Government, and we can then take stock of progress made.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I thank the Minister and welcome the progress which has been made. But may I ask him this: In these discussions, has the Soviet Union made any concessions about on-site inspection of nuclear tests? Secondly, has there been consideration of the fact that France and China, which are developing nuclear weapons, are not participating in these discussions?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, despite improvements in detecting and identifying seismic events, complex problems still need to be solved: that is part of the purpose of the negotiations. We are ready to discuss all possibilities, including the suggestion of the Soviet Union at the last United Nations General Assembly that a compromise basis for some degree of on-site inspection might be possible in this context. As to the possible participation of the two other nuclear weapon States, France and China, it is clearly a matter for the Governments of those countries. I have no doubt that they will assess the nature and timing of their own participation in this important exercise.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, is it not desirable in these circumstances that there should be a wider world conference for disarmament, which would bring in all the nations to make their contributions?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, as a first stage, the three countries principally concerned—the United Kingdom, the United States and the Soviet Union—are properly applying themselves to the technical and other aspects of the difficult but urgent problem of a comprehensive test ban. If agreement is reached, no doubt the appropriate world forum for further discussion and means of implementation will be considered. As my noble friend knows, the United Nations will, during its next session, hold a special session on disarmament as a whole.
§ Lord CHALFONTMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether Her Majesty's Government have any new information as to the level on the Richter scale of underground seismic events at which it can now be decided quite beyond doubt whether an event is a nuclear explosion or an earthquake? Is that level now sufficiently low for Her Majesty's Government to adopt the view that on-site inspection is no longer necessary?
Lord GORONY-ROBERTSNo, my Lords, I do not think that we have got that far, but progress has undoubtedly been made in the sense that my noble friend has suggested. There is still a line beyond which verification, which is essential to the practical success of any disarmament negotiation and proposal, cannot be fully guaranteed. As I have said on behalf of Her Majesty's Government—and indeed my noble friend has also said this more than once when speaking on disarmament from this Box—it is essential that verification, leading to a sense of security, be achieved as a basis for real disarmament in this, as in other, fields.