§ 2.51 p.m.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they intend to proceed with the recently announced pig subsidy scheme in the light of the European Economic Communities' objections, and if so how long they intend it should continue.
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food announced last Thursday, 20th January, that the Government had decided to introduce a temporary subsidy for pigmeat. He then pointed out that the present method of 470 calculating monetary compensatory amounts on our imports of bacon and other pigmeat products is unfair to our producers and processors and recalled that he has proposed to the EEC Council of Ministers that a fairer method be adopted. The Commission have been notified of the Government's decision and there have been informal contacts with the Commissioner for Agriculture who has expressed his reservations. It remains the Government's view however that the introduction of this subsidy was essential as an emergency measure to prevent the rundown of our pig breeding herd which was threatening seriously to reduce our future supplies of pork and bacon. Pigs will be accepted for certification from next Monday, 31st January.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, I am greatly obliged to the noble Lord for that reply. He is clearly right in the assertion that something had to be done in the short term. But is he aware that since the scheme was announced only last Thursday the price of pigmeat has dropped again, apparently in anticipation of the new subsidy arrangements? Can he say how long the scheme will continue and whether it will be possible for the Government to phase out the scheme gradually when the day comes, rather than to stop it suddenly?
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, I will take note of what has been said by the noble Lord. Obviously on the introduction of a subsidy, the term will depend so much on its effect on the industry. I could not commit myself to a specific ending of it now, but I will consult with my right honourable friend. I have taken note of what has been said.
§ Baroness ELLESMy Lords, while I accept what the Minister said that the pig industry definitely needed some form of financial assistance, would the Minister confirm that a devaluation of the Green Pound would have been a very much better way of doing this? Would the Minister also agree that if there were more co-operation on other fronts within the European Community it would not be necessary for the Government to break international legal obligations?
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, I do not think that the noble Baroness should do 471 that—to encourage people in Europe to disagree with what has been done previously. I remember getting a subsidy much larger than this when I first went to Europe. I would agree with the noble Baroness that there are problems about the Green Pound—I accept that—but the Government have decided to give an immediate subsidy because the industry needs help, and I hope nobody will oppose it.
§ Baroness ELLESBut, my Lords, will the Minister undertake to have better co-operation in the European Community so that a new method of assessing the MCAs is obtained in agreement with all other members of the Community?
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, obviously if there is going to be a major change it will have to be done through co-operation. I always sought to achieve that when I used to negotiate there myself, and I am certain that that is still the policy of Her Majesty's Government.
§ Lord O'HAGANMy Lords, would the noble Lord accept that the sudden imposition of this subsidy to deal with a really serious problem, which we all admit exists, without consultation with our partners in the Community, will not help the Government work out a long-term solution for the problems faced by pig producers in this country? Could the noble Lord confirm that the Government will be prepared to withdraw it soon, if and when by negotiation, which may now have been prejudiced by this action, the community is able to come forward with a constructive solution to the problem that faces our pig producers?
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, that may well be true in some ways, but I think that the Government have had informal talks and discussions. I was in charge long before the present Minister, and I highlighted the difficulties facing the pig industry and not just the difficulties confronting the producer but also those facing the processor. There have been consultations. I hope that nothing will be said which will harm our achieving our objective here.
§ Lord DAVIES of LEEKMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that most people who have struggled in moderately-sized 472 farming to earn a living sometimes look to pig breeding on a small scale to produce cheaper meat for the consumer? Will this help in any way the small producer living on marginal land? Finally, co-operation is something that works both ways.
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, I agree that the pig producer generally is a small farmer—not in every case of course, but many small producers are in the pig industry—and this will help.
§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIEMy Lords, would not the Minister agree that so long as we have this totally artificial distortion occasioned by the value of the Green Pound, then this kind of thing is going to occur? Would he not agree that there are other areas of farming where a subsidy may be necessary?
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, I accept that. The noble Lord knows that too well.
§ Lord HYLTONMy Lords, would the Minister, with his long experience, accept that ad hoc subsidies are no substitute for a reliable, long-term viable level of prices?
§ Lord PEARTMy Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that ad hoc subsidies are no substitute, but sometimes a temporary subsidy is necessary, and in this case I believe it is.