HL Deb 15 February 1977 vol 379 cc1391-4
Baroness ELLES

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether consideration has been given to the setting up of a governmental or non-governmental group to monitor Britain's adherence to the Helsinki Agreement.

The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government do not propose to set up a governmental group to monitor Britain's adherence to the Helsinki Final Act. Her Majesty's Government started from a very high threshold of existing achievement in implementing the provisions of the Final Act and remain determined to implement it fully in all parts. The Government are aware that suggestions have been made about the possible creation of a non-governmental group to monitor implementation of the provisions of the Helsinki Final Act by all signatory States. They welcome the expansion of public knowledge and understanding of and interest in the Conference on Security and Co-operation in Europe, and would be ready to furnish appropriate information to a properly constituted and broadly based independent monitoring group.

Baroness ELLES

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that very full reply. In particular, in relation to Basket Three, would the Government have any objection in principle to the setting up of nongovernmental monitoring groups? Also, would the Minister agree that it is very important to establish the principle that in this country groups would be free to do so, and to set up groups similar to those of Dr. Orlof in Russia and Charter 77 in Czechoslovakia?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

Yes, my Lords; certainly. In this country, any group within the law is entitled to form itself into a monitoring body, and I have indicated that we would look with favour on such an independently constituted group. If it was seen in any way to be connected with the Government, its efficacy might be impaired. So we find ourselves in total agreement that such a group could be useful and we stand in readiness appropriately to assist them in their inquiries into the position.

Lord BROCKWAY

My Lords, may I first ask the Minister whether, on our behalf, he will express to the family of the Secretary of State our deep sympathy in their anxieties, which we share.

Several noble Lords

Hear, hear!

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, may I ask this question, which I hope is in order——

Lord BROCKWAY

I am sorry, my Lords. On the subject of the Question, while we are rightly concentrating on human rights, may I ask whether Her Majesty's Government will make a Statement at an early stage as to the advance made in economic co-operation between West and East, which, after all, was the core of the Helsinki Agreement?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, I am sure that the House appreciates the motives of my noble friend in expressing his, and I am sure everybody else's, sympathy with the family of the Secretary of State in the present difficult and tragic circumstances, and in wishing him well. On the substantive question which my noble friend put to me, doubtless there will be a number of opportunities, Parliamentary and other, for interim Statements on the progress of the implementation of the Final Act, including implementation of those aspects of it which ray noble friend has mentioned this afternoon.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, I apologise first to my noble friend Lord Brockway for having intervened, but there was a somewhat prolonged pause which misled me. May I ask a question which I hope is in order? Is my noble friend aware that if the noble Baroness opposite had put the Question, …cares to get further information on the attitude of the Russians to the Helsinki Agreement", I should have said that there is a meeting next week when a senior counsellor from the Embassy is coming to address a non-governmental group—namely, the all-Party Defence Group—and she is invited to come and ask the question then.

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, no doubt the noble Baroness and everybody else has listened to my noble friend's plug in favour of the meeting in which he is interested. I am almost inclined to support him in his appeal for a full attendance at that meeting. On what he said before he put his point, I am sure everybody here understands that my noble friend Lord Shinwell would be the first to join my noble friend Lord Brockway in what Lord Brockway said about the situation.

Viscount ST. DAVIDS

My Lords, will the noble Lord agree—I am sure he will—that, when we are urging other nations to take such actions as setting up a monitoring body, there is very great value to be obtained if we first do it ourselves?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, as I understand my noble friend's question, I do not think there is value in us, as a Government, setting up a monitoring group. But I think—and I am sure this is what my noble friend meant—that there is value in independent groups coming together, especially in a free country, to take an objective view of the implementation of this important Act by all signatory States.