§ 2.50 p.m.
Lord INGLEWOODMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware of the concern in Cumbria and South West Scotland about the way in which the hands of the police are bound when trying to enforce the law against the owners and drivers of vehicles based in Northern Ireland and coming into Scotland and England through the port of Stranraer; and what amendments to the law they will propose to allow the service of English and Scottish summonses in Northern Ireland in a manner similar to the procedure that enables Scottish summonses to be served in England and vice versa.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, this problem arises mainly in relation to road traffic offences, but is not confined to them. At present, a summons issued in England and Wales or Scotland cannot be served in Northern Ireland, nor a Northern Irish summons here. Consultations have begun at official level on the possibilities of amending the law on this matter, but it is too early to say what the outcome is likely to be. Legislation would be required and complex legal and procedural questions are also involved.
Lord INGLEWOODSo far, so good, my Lords; but is the noble Lord not aware 850 that this situation is far from new and that in the opinion of chief constables it has been serious for at least two years? Limiting the question to the road traffic context, does he not appreciate that it is impossible at present for the police to do their job and that English and Scottish drivers are becoming resentful, because when they are checked for various offences—speeding or otherwise—this is likely to be followed by a charge, while Irish drivers are likely to escape scot free? Is it really so difficult to put this situation right by moving a small Amendment to the Criminal Law Bill which we have before us now? This is far too serious a matter to be allowed to drag on.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, we are aware of the situation, but we are also aware of the very considerable difficulties involved. We know the feeling of people on this matter. I should like to explain briefly that English warrants of arrest and committal if they are backed can be executed in Northern Ireland, and serious offences are in fact dealt with in this particular way. However, if an English court issues a summons to an accused person in Northern Ireland and the accused fails to appear, the court could enforce his appearance by the issue of a warrant only if the offence involved is punishable by imprisonment, and a good many of the road traffic offences are not punishable by imprisonment. Therefore, it is not possible to use the procedure which we can use in other circumstances. It is because of these difficulties that it is necessary to look at the whole matter. But I must say again that it will involve legislation and it cannot be done by merely a simple short worded Amendment.
Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTONMy Lords, in the circumstances, can the noble Lord advise me how I can get my car registered in Northern Ireland?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, if the noble Lord puts down a Question on that matter I am sure that we shall be able to give him an Answer.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, despite the difficulties, will the Government seek to remove this dangerous anomaly as soon as possible? Is the noble Lord aware that some irresponsible lorry owners, whose only business address 851 is in Northern Ireland, are running defective vehicles on Scottish and English roads and, though reported by the police and even refused operators' licences, they continue with impunity? How can this be allowed to go on considering that foreign vehicles are caught by the 1972 Act and that Ulster operators are therefore in a privileged and quite indefensible position?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, we know all this and the Government are resolved to do something about it. I believe that this particular situation has been going on since 1881, but we are aware of it. I cannot say any more other than that discussions are taking place. It is known that legislation will be required and we hope to deal with the matter as soon as possible.
Lord INGLEWOODJoking apart, my Lords, even though there may have been a situation of this kind existing since 1881, it is only over the past few years that this particular development has come about. It is getting worse and is in fact a danger. From what he has said I gather that the noble Lord appreciates how difficult the situation is, and so surely he can at least speed up the consultations, as my noble friend has suggested.
The Duke of ATHOLLMy Lords, can the noble Lord confirm that the treatment of Scottish summonses is the same as the treatment of English summonses in Northern Ireland when the offence committed is such that the accused is liable to be imprisoned?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLThe answer is, Yes, my Lords. The Summary Jurisdiction (Process) Act 1881 (the year to which I referred) permits summonses issued in an English court to be served in Scotland provided that they are endorsed and there is a reciprocal arrangement in respect of fines.
The Duke of ATHOLLBut, my Lords, what about Scottish summonses in Northern Ireland? This is what is worrying me. I am fully aware that English and Scottish summonses can be served in the courts of the other country, but what about the position in Northern Ireland?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, they cannot be effectively served and this is a matter which will also be looked into at the same time.