§ 2.56 p.m.
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they propose to take to alleviate the burden falling on the ratepayers resulting from the excessive and accumulated rent arrears in certain boroughs.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY of STATE, DEPARTMENT of the ENVIRONMENT (Baroness Birk)None, my Lords. It is for the local authorities concerned to take steps to prevent or recover rent arrears and to make appropriate financial adjustments. The actual write-off is small by comparison with total arrears.
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, is the Minister aware of the article in The Times today which gives figures, including £40 million owed in England and Wales in rent arrears? Is she also aware that this article rather underwrites my own feelings about this subject; namely, that it is a matter that needs to be tackled psychologically? Would she agree with me that in the old days, when most of the tenancies were between private landlords and tenants, there was a personal relationship which had a certain effect on rent payment? Now that council houses are so prevalent, if a family gets into difficulties they are inclined to think that the debt to the local authority is not all that important, that the local authority can wear it, and therefore this debt is put at the end of the queue. This is a matter which needs to be tackled fundamentally for the benefit of those who pay their rent and rates honestly.
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, in 1975–76 the amount actually written off was 853 £1.9 million out of a total of £856 million rebated rents, which means that one has to look at the write-off figure rather than the arrears, because there are several reasons why the arrears pile up further. There is among other things the technical point that, for example, rent paid in arrears by the Supplementary Benefits Commission is shown as arrears, yet it is going to be paid.
I would not agree with the noble Baroness when she makes the distinction between private landlords and local authorities. But I should say that in some instances, as we have already seen, there is a difference between authorities which are now doing their collection by Giro and those authorities which have personal rent collectors. This is a problem which is now showing itself. If the noble Baroness is suggesting that where there is a personal approach or personal contact, this often works better, then I think that she has a point. Where there is a personal contact it is often known that people are in difficulties and ways can be found to help move them into cheaper accommodation. Advice is being given by the Department to find out whether there is something wrong in relation to problems with the family, so that the arrears do not go on too long.
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for falling in with a certain amount of my feelings, and if this process is to be developed I think that it will help a great deal. But it is a serious matter. The arrears are very great, and it is a serious matter for those who pay.
§ Lord SLATERMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that local authorities who are responsible for housing control have what is known as rent arrears committees? These committees, by their actions in cases where people fall into arrears, have been able to bring about circumstances in which the arrears have been wiped off, and the figures that my noble friend has produced today substantiate what I am now saying.
§ Baroness BIRKYes, my Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right, and I am grateful to him for bringing forward that point. Also, the other point which I think follows from the question of the noble 854 Baroness is that authorities usually make provision in their housing revenue accounts to cover a certain proportion of arrears.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, although, for financial reasons, most local authorities have abandoned the collection of rents by means of collectors—because it is a great deal more expensive than methods such as the Giro, which the noble Baroness has mentioned—would it not be the normal practice for local authorities, where a person gets seriously in arrears, to see whether that person is claiming all the allowances to which he or she may be entitled, so that, where family incomes supplement or supplementary benefit is available to pay the rent, that can be used to wipe off the arrears?
§ Baroness BIRKYes, my Lords, the noble Lord is quite right. In a DOE Circular in 1974 these were some of the points that were stressed, because many of the people who have been in arrears are entitled to either rent or rate rebates, or both, but they have not known and have not taken them up.