§ 2.40 p.m.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what practical steps they are taking to prevent citizens and organisations in the British Isles being threatened with serious consequences if they do not bow to the demands of the Arab boycott against Israel and certain classes of British subjects.
379Lord ORAMMy Lords, as has been stated on many occasions in both Houses of Parliament, Her Majesty's Government are opposed to all trade boycotts which lack international support and authority. British exporters to the markets of the Middle East who require advice and assistance in relation to the Arab boycott are invited to consult officials of the Department of Trade. Any discussions are always undertaken in strict confidence.
Lord JANNERBut, my Lords, is it not rather disgraceful that a nation, Israel, which dealt with us to the advantage of ourselves for many years should be allowed to have this kind of action taken against it? Will my noble friend take practical steps, first, to stop the certification by Government officials of declarations demanded by the disgraceful boycotters? Secondly, will my noble friend consult with the USA, who are taking active steps in respect of the disgraceful performance on the part of the boycotters, to ensure that we take some joint action?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, I have nothing to add to what I said about the Government's condemnation of boycotts which do not have international authority. As regards the two other points raised by my noble friend, I would assure him that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, when they certify documents, take no account of, or responsibility for, the content of the document in question. It is merely certifying the signature of a notary or a chamber of commerce official.
As to my noble friend's suggestion about American action and the possibility of our joining with them, he will be aware, of course, that legislation is at the moment before Congress; it is still not clear what shape the final American legislation will take, so that it does not necessarily provide us with a practical model. However, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has said that he is watching the further legislative proposals.
§ Lord BYERSMy Lords, will the Minister reconsider the certification of documents, because this is being widely misunderstood as supporting the boycott itself? Also, do not the Government agree that President Carter was right when 380 he said that this is not a question of diplomacy and trade, but a question of morality?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, I can assure the noble Lord and your Lordships' House that the certification of documents by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office does not in any way imply that we condone or endorse the boycott. I accept that there may be misunderstandings about it and I would join the noble Lord in giving any publicity—which his question has now given me an opportunity to give—to what I have said; that is, that the practice of certification does not condone the boycott.
§ Lord BYERSMy Lords, but if it does not, why do we not stop it?
Lord JANNERMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he means to say that if a person came with a declaration demanding the murder of certain people it would not affect the situation in so far as certification is concerned? When it is a question of attempting to destroy a nation, does he not think it vitally important that certification, which can be so easily misinterpreted, should not take place, and will he stop this disgraceful procedure?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, I cannot do more than reiterate what I said; that is, that the certification by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in no way implies condoning the boycott. That has been clearly stated before. It has been clearly stated by myself this afternoon. I hope that all will understand it.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, is there any prospect of European concerted action about this matter because, whatever else can be said about the so-called boycott, it must be held to be against the comity of nations?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, if what the noble and learned Lord has in mind is the EEC, then I am not aware of any discussions within its councils on this matter. But I have inquired, and I am assured that Her Majesty's Government's policy in relation to the boycott in no way offends against our obligations in respect of membership of the EEC.
Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTONMy Lords, even if the noble Lord says that this does not condone the boycott, does it not facilitate the boycott and is it not part of the machinery of the boycott?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, certainly it can be regarded as a facility, but that raises the broader question, which has been examined many times, of Her Majesty's Government's general policy towards the boycott.
§ The Earl of ONSLOWMy Lords, on this boycott issue, which we are getting very "upheaved" about, should we not consider what we, when we were at war, used to do to other nations who were trading with the enemy? And let us remember that the Arab States are still officially in a state of war with Israel, which has occupied their territory and their country?
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, is it not the case that war is against the Charter of the United Nations? Does it really lie in the mouth of Arab countries to retain their membership of the United Nations while maintaining a perpetual state of war?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, Her Majesty's Government have carefully indicated that they are against boycotts which do not have international authority. If the boycott had that international authority, through the United Nations' machinery or in other ways, that would be a different picture.
§ Lord PARGITERMy Lords, will my noble friend say whether it is true that the volume of trade which we do with Arab countries has a good deal to do with this question, and that we are unable or unwilling to take any further action?
Lord ORAMMy Lords, naturally, questions of trade enter into this matter, because it is a boycott of trade. But there are considerations other than the mere size of trade with the two parts of the Middle East area.
§ Baroness ELLIOT of HARWOODMy Lords, obviously the Minister is much opposed to the boycott, but may I ask him this question? If everything is done behind the scenes and discussions are all in private, how can the public, or any of us who feel very strongly about it, know the views of Her Majesty's Government on this policy of the Arabs, from which industry is suffering? If I may say so, it seems rather weak-kneed that we cannot say out in the open what we really disagree with.
Lord ORAMMy Lords, as regards openness, there have of course been many discussions in this House and in another place, so that the Government's position is fairly well-known. But on the more detailed point which I think the noble Baroness has in mind, there has been prepared and widely issued a note from the Department of Trade, which sets out advice to firms which are concerned in this matter. I am not sure whether it is a public document, but certainly it is a widely-issued document.