HL Deb 05 July 1976 vol 372 cc1029-31

3.1 p.m.

Earl FERRERS

My Lords, in view of the fact that this Bill is in my name and not in the name of the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill.

Moved, that the House do now resolve itself into a Committee.—(Earl Ferrers.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly.

[The BARONESS TWEEDSNWIR OF BEL-HELVIE in the Chair.]

Clause 1 [Closure of food premises or stores dangerous to health]:

Lord WELLS-PESTELL moved the following Amendment :

Page 2, line 15, at end insert ("(unless the local authority are unable after reasonable inquiry to ascertain his identity) ").

The noble Lord said: This Amendment seeks to rectify a technical defect in the Bill. As at present drafted, a closure order cannot be made unless the local authority have given fourteen days' notice to the actual owner of the business as well as to the operator. But it may be very difficult for the local authority to identify the actual owner. The authority have power to require the occupier to give the name and address of the owner, but it is certainly conceivable that operators of businesses threatened with closure might be deliberately obstructive or even might not know who the ultimate owner is because of the complexity of the businesses.

The Amendment provides that the local authority may be discharged from the obligation to give 14 days' notice to the owner if they are unable, after reasonable inquiry, to ascertain his identity. It will be for the court to determine whether the local authority have taken reasonable steps to find out who the owner is. In any event, the 14 days' notice must still be given to the person prosecuted which, in the absence of the owner, would be the occupier. We understand that this is necessary in the circumstances. I beg to move.

Earl FERRERS

The noble Lord, Lord Wells-Pestell, is always helpful and I am very grateful to him for having gone through this Bill with an even finer toothcomb than I have myself. I appreciate the fact that he has put down this Amendment, which is, as he says, a technical Amendment and will improve the Bill. I think the noble Lord is quite right when he says that there could be occasions where an environmental health officer goes to give notice of a closure order to an operator and, when he asks the operator the name of the person concerned, the operator might well be obstructive and deliberately prevent the environmental health officer from knowing who the owner is. In those cases this Amendment will certainly improve the Bill. I am very grateful to the noble Lord for having noticed this defect and put it right.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

On Question, Whether Clause 1, as amended, shall stand part of the Bill?

Lord LEATHERLAND

I notice that this clause, like others in the Bill, refers to food sold from premises or from a stall. There are occasions, particularly at this time of the year, when one foodstuff, to wit, ice cream, is sold from premises and from stalls and also from vehicles which parade the streets. Do the terms "premises "or "stall "include a van which goes round the streets selling ice cream?—because it is quite improper that ice cream vehicles should be excluded from the supervision laid down by this Bill. It could be that a stall means a stall standing in a market or one that is mobile and travelling in an ice cream van. All I want to know is whether ice cream vans are covered.

Earl FERRERS

The whole of this Bill comprises premises of any description from which food is sold. They include cafes and restaurants and also stalls and barrows. I think I am correct in saying that they would also include premises even if they were on wheels. I hope that will satisfy the noble Lord that this particular Bill covers all premises, whatever form they take, from which food is sold.

Lord LEATHERLAND

It seems odd to me that something running on wheels can be described as "premises ". I accept what the noble Earl says but it occurs to me that the courts might take a different view.

Clause 1, as amended, agreed to.

Remaining clauses agreed to.

House resumed: Bill reported with an Amendment.