HL Deb 21 October 1975 vol 364 cc1239-41

2.43 p.m.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it has come to their attention that vessels operating under the control of the Soviet Union are carrying freight at substantially reduced charges to the detriment of British shipping and whether any action is contemplated to prevent unfair competition.

Lord BESWICK

My Lords, we are aware of the concern felt by the British shipping industry, and those in some other countries, about the activities of the Soviet Merchant Marine. We are urgently investigating the matter with the interests concerned. I cannot speculate at this stage upon what, if any, action might be required.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, when my noble friend speaks about investigating the matter—which he regards, quite rightly, as urgent—does he mean that there have been consultations with other maritime countries, for example, West Germany and the Scandinavian countries who are adversely affected? Is he aware that the wage rates of Russian seamen are only one-tenth equivalent (in British currency) to the wages paid to British seamen? Is that not detrimental to the interests of the British Mercantile Marine?

Lord BESWICK

My Lords, the answer to the first part of my noble friend's supplementary question is that there are consultations between the countries concerned with this trade. I am not aware of the wage rates of Soviet seamen, but the question is whether there is free and fair competition according to the principles of the Anglo-Soviet Merchant Shipping Agreement. We are endeavouring to establish whether or not this is so.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, when my noble friend speaks of consultation, can he say what has happened as a result of the consultations that have already taken place; or are they only being contemplated?

Lord BESWICK

My Lords, the countries are in the process of consultation. Nothing has as yet taken place.

Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDE

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he can tell us how long these consultations have gone on, whether there has been any response from the Soviet Union or whether they have still to go on in accordance with the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Shinwell?

Lord BESWICK

My Lords, as the noble Baroness and my noble friend will appreciate, there are certain difficulties in establishing the facts in this case. I cannot say exactly how much longer these consultations will take. I have said that that they are being pressed with a degree of urgency.

Lord SHINWELL

My Lords, why does my noble friend speak of investigation into the facts? Is not the Minister responsible—whoever he happens to be—in consultation with the Council of Shipping? Is he not aware that the Council of Shipping have related the facts and presented them?—I have a copy in my possession. Does he not regard this matter as urgent and does he not agree that something must be done about it?

Lord BESWICK

My Lords, it is possible for some people to make assertions which they allege to be facts, but it is not always easy to prove whether or not they are facts. Although I have said that there is a degree of urgency about this matter, I do not believe that we should overestimate the damage being caused. I am informed that Soviet ships carry only some 1.2 percent. of the total United Kingdom trade—that was the figure in 1973. We, for our part, carry approximately 1 per cent. of the trade of the Soviet Union. I cannot think that the damage, as of now, is excessive.