§ Lord CLIFFORD of CHUDLEIGHMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what action they propose to take to protect the wrecks of H.M.S. "Prince of Wales" and H.M.S. "Repulse" in view of the imminent departure of the Royal Navy from Singapore.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, although the wrecks of Her Majesty's Ships "Prince of Wales" and "Repulse" are lying in international waters over 50 miles from the Malaysia coast, they remain Crown property and as such we are concerned to safeguard them. You will appreciate the difficulties of trying to prevent any unauthorised interference with the wrecks, particularly small isolated instances; but since salvage of these two ships would be a major and lengthy operation any attempt could hardly escape notice even in its preparatory stages. While our presence in the Far East may have had a deterrent effect on would be salvors, I believe that the withdrawal of the Royal Navy from 1242 Singapore should not affect in practice our ability to take action should the necessity arise. The position will, of course, be watched carefully.
§ Lord CLIFFORD of CHUDLEIGHMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware that the huge bronze propellors, one of which is already missing, the other non-ferrous metals and the armour plating which, as pré-Hiroshimametal, is in great demand for shielding nuclear reactors, make these ships a salvage bonanza? Would it not add insult to injury to the relatives and survivors for Japanese salvage firms—and it could be one of them—to profit from British ships and British war graves?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, the noble Lord has raised what is the important issue. These ships are the tombs of nearly a thousand British sailors. I am certain that the House will agree with the noble Lord that they should not be desecrated.
§ Lord BALFOUR of INCHRYEMy Lords, can the noble Lord tell us in what depth of water the wrecks lie?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, all that I know is that it is just within the capacity of modern diving techniques.
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, will my noble friend confirm that it is Admiralty policy not to give salvage rights in such circumstances? Furthermore, would he not agree that any attempt to disturb the graves of these honourable and gallant men would outrage public opinion in Britain?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMYes, my Lords, that is the position.
§ Lord CLIFFORD of CHUDLEIGHMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that our own Black Rod, as Far East Fleet Commander, was responsible for the 1966 diving operation which attached to the propellers of the two ships a line and float from which a White Ensign was flown? Will he, on this Trafalgar Day, guarantee to the House that the "powers that be" will not sweep this problem under the carpet?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMYes, my Lords, I can give that guarantee.
§ Lord WIGGMy Lords, if the noble Lord is considering sweeping matters under the carpet, would he remind himself that at the time HMS "Repulse". HMS "Prince of Wales" and HMS "Singapore" were lost, the British nation was promised an inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the building of HMS "Singapore" and the circumstances of the loss of these ships? That inquiry to this day has never been held. Perhaps it would be as well, if we are going to sweep things under the carpet, that we should remember the circumstances under which they were swept under the carpet.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, that is another question but I did not say that Her Majesty's Government were going to sweep it under the carpet.
§ Lord DRUMALBYNMy Lords, may I ask for clarification? The noble Lord replied to the effect that any attempt to disturb these wrecks would outrage public opinion. Does the noble Lord extend that to salvage by British firms for British purposes?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, that is extending the Question. Her Majesty's Government would consider salvage, provided the bodies of the dead were reverently treated.
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that if that decision were taken the Commonwealth War Graves Commission would carry out that task and see that the remains were adequately, properly and decently buried?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, if that situation arose, the War Graves Commission would be consulted.