§ 3.21 p.m.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress has been made in the endeavour to eliminate violence and hooliganism connected with football matches.
1002§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE, DEPARTMENT of the ENVIRONMENT (Baroness Birk)My Lords, I am glad to report that since my previous Answer on the 22nd September the measures agreed upon and recommended by the Minister for Sport's Working Party are proving to be successful in practice. The number of undesirable incidents in football grounds has been substantially reduced this season, and the new measures announced by British Rail and the Traffic Commissioners in respect of rail traffic and motor coaches are proving extremely helpful. The Government welcome all these improvements, but I can assure the House that we have no intention of relaxing our vigilance. I can also inform the House that the meeting concerning research which I mentioned on the 22nd September has now taken place, and the Sports Council and Social Science Research Council are currently discussing the scope for further research.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her reply on a subject which, judging from the amount of correspondence I have received since my Question last month, is one of some public concern, including too the large majority of people who want to watch football matches in peaceful conditions. May I ask the noble Baroness this supplementary question? Is anything being done on my suggestion of directed community service for the offenders on Saturday afternoons and are the Government aware of the reported threat of a bus strike in Glasgow on the day of the coming Rangers-Celtic match because of the danger of violence affecting the drivers and conductors?
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, so far as possible, wherever there are facilities community service orders are being increasingly used, but I am sure the noble Lord is aware that this is still in the form of a pilot scheme and, unfortunately, so far does not cover the whole country. On his second point, the transport workers have been to see both the Minister of Sport and the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor to discuss this very problem; so this is also under discussion. But I would point out that the measures which have been taken are intended to bring about (and, as I explained in my 1003 original Answer, they are proving to be) an improvement in this matter. Perhaps I might add that I, too, had a great deal of correspondence on this, including correspondence from some young people who themselves felt that in some ways the conditions were very bad, but who wanted to have the opportunity to talk to somebody about the matter and to express their view of the game, not their view of the behaviour. I also had a letter from a youth officer in Manchester who said that he thought he was probably the only skilled youth worker in the country working with a group of young football supporters, and who spoke of the progress he had made because he was now working on properly planned arrangements for away matches. This is something which I hope will be taken up in many other areas.
§ Baroness WOOTTON of ABINGERMy Lords, would the noble Baroness accept that community service orders have now really passed the pilot stage and that it is open to those in any area of the country which can satisfy the Home Office that they can be effectively operated in that area to introduce them? In fact, they are being spread very widely through the country.
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, I thank my noble friend very much indeed for those remarks and hope that what she has said will also help to encourage and perhaps expedite action in those areas which are being rather slow in starting up this system.
Lord INGLEWOODMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness whether or not she would agree that this is a field where far more use could be made of special constables, the voluntary force in this country, either by employing these special constables themselves on or near football grounds, or else by using them to relieve the regular police on other routine duties, so freeing more of them to be available in or near football grounds?
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, that is an interesting suggestion, but I think that since the discussions which have been started by the Home Office are now going on between the Sports Council and the Social Science Research Council one should leave it to them. But the noble 1004 Lord may be interested to know that one of the first priorities may be to develop a cross-fertilisation of ideas on crowd control techniques among individual police forces. This the Home Office is considering now, and I should have thought that it was better to leap that way and to see what results before proceeding on the suggestion put forward by the noble Lord.
Lord INGLEWOODMy Lords, following up my question, may I ask the noble Baroness whether she is aware that in some districts in this country great encouragement is given to special constables and in others far less, and that they in fact deserve the maximum encouragement we can give them all over the country?
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, I will certainly note that, of course.