Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is intended that the British National Oil Corporation should be a partner or consortium member in every oilfield on the United Kingdom Continental Shelf, including oilfields already being developed and oilfields deemed not to be commercial.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, DEPARTMENT of ENERGY (Lord Balogh)My Lords, it is the firm aim of Her Majesty's Government to secure a majority State participation in all commercial oilfields under development now or found under Fifth Round licences.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, I am grateful for that Answer. If all commercial oilfields are to be treated in this way, does this not restrict the flexibility with which the Government's policy of 51 per cent. participation can be negotiated with individual companies? Were not other options also open? Secondly, what is to be the definition of a commercial oilfield? This is very relevant because the Government had considerable difficulty in finding such a definition during the course of proceedings upon the Petroleum and Submarine Pipe-lines Act.
§ Lord BALOGHMy Lords, I should have thought that the companies themselves will have a great interest in declaring commercial the commercial oilfields. As to the second question, as to what constitutes an oilfield, it is like the 388 elephant; it cannot be defined, but when you look at it you know what it is.
§ The Earl of LAUDERDALEMy Lords, can the noble Lord tell us how proceedings are advancing with regard to participation? Have any more major oil companies accepted the principle of participation?
§ Lord BALOGHMy Lords, I thought that the noble Earl was extremely careful to tell us not to breach confidentiality, and I am not willing to do so now.
§ The Earl of LAUDERDALEMy Lords, without asking the noble Lord to breach confidentiality, surely he might say that a dozen or half a dozen oil companies or the famous Seven Sisters, have agreed in principle. Or are we to take it that they have not?
§ Lord BALOGHMy Lords, I should not take anything for granted in this field. I can assure the noble Earl that we have two very nice fish on the hook, but I shall not say who.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, I will examine Hansard very carefully tomorrow; but is the noble Lord aware that his initial Answer did not give very much information? Can he say that there are other options open which allow for more flexibility where participation is concerned?
§ Lord BALOGHMy Lords, we are taking each case individually, and, of course, we hope to have the utmost flexibility. That does not mean that our aim is not majority participation.
§ Lord BYERSMy Lords, does the noble Lord think that using the phrase, "fish on the hook", will advance the co-operation we need between industry and the Government?
§ Lord BALOGHMy Lords, I do not think they will take a joke as sourly as the noble Lord does.
§ Lord BYERSMy Lords, if the fish is on the hook what will happen to it when it is off the hook?
§ The Earl of LAUDERDALEMy Lords, in view of his earlier remarks to the effect that both Burmah and BP agreed to participation in principle, would the noble Lord say whether they are the two lovely fish on the hook?
§ Lord BALOGHMy Lords, the noble Earl continues to want me to be indiscreet, as I was before I was a Minister. He is not going to succeed.
§ Lord HARMAR-NICHOLLSMy Lords, should the reaction which brings two possible results be considered a success, a medium success or a failure at this stage?
§ Lord BALOGHMy Lords, I should have thought it depends entirely which company it is, under what conditions, and what kind of stimulus that gives to the others.
§ The Earl of ONSLOWMy Lords, would the noble Lord try to give some answers to the questions, as opposed to just ducking, weaving and giving very funny replies about elephants, which have nothing to do with oil at all.
§ Lord BALOGHMy Lords, that would be entirely against the tradition of this House.
§ The Earl of ONSLOWMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I am probably more acquainted with the traditions of this House, as my forebears and I have been here since 1801?
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, as the noble Lord speaks in riddles, and sometimes in metaphors, perhaps he can tell us whether he is baiting a fish-hook to catch an elephant.