§ 2.47 p.m.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what was the amount received in the United Kingdom during the last recorded year in payment of interest, dividend and profit arising from loans and investments from public and private sources made to the developing countries.
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I am afraid that figures are not available in a form which makes it possible to break them down in the way for which my noble friend has asked. However, loans and investments from Government sources and the Commonwealth Development Corporation led to receipts of about £35 million in 1973. Receipts from direct investment by private interests (other than oil) were 8 approximately £250 million in 1972, of which £104 million was reinvested in the developing countries.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that Answer. Would she agree that if, in addition to the two figures she gave, we include the return on investments which she was not able to give, it is clear that we received from the developing countries more each year than we give in aid?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I cannot accept the implication of my noble friend's supplementary question, because the two figures are not comparable. To put it broadly, we are living in a mixed economy. The private investment companies always invest with the agreement of the local governments ; those Governments gain from taxation, the standard of living rises, production increases, and it is from the increases in production that profits come back to this country. I do not think that this kind of situation ought to be compared with our aid programme which is done on a different basis.
§ Lord HARVEY of PRESTBURYMy Lords, can the noble Baroness say how much capital was involved in bringing in these considerable sums?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I am afraid I do not have those figures.
The Earl of COWLEYMy Lords, can the noble Baroness tell us why the Government have refused to take part in the Paris Club talks to reschedule Chile's foreign debt, and can she justify the decision on purely economic grounds? Also, are the Government willing to underwrite the potential losses incurred by British companies if Chile declares a moratorium on its foreign debt?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, can the noble Earl justify asking that question on a totally different matter?
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, the noble Baroness said in the first part of her Answer that the figures were not available but, subsequently, figures were then paraded. Would the noble Baroness not agree that returns from Commonwealth development are hardly comparable with 9 the straight loans made by the Government? Would it not be appropriate in those calculations to have some kind of offsetting of the notional interest which would accrue from the large volume of interest-free loans which have been made to developing countries? Also, might I ask the noble Baroness whether she would take into account the deferment resulting from the failure to meet maturing loans which have been recycled on a basis different from the one on which they were originally given?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I do not entirely follow the noble Lord all the way in the first part of his question. As he knows, the Commonwealth Development Corporation operates on a basis which is different from that used for the rest of our aid. Roughly speaking, it does not make a profit, but equally it does not make a loss. Of the £33 million or £35 million which came back to us in 1973, quite a proportion came back from the CDC. As to the last part of the questtion, I think that was slightly wide of the original Question put by my noble friend, but I will have a look at it.
§ Lord ORR-EWINGMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that we give aid of nearly £100 million a year to India, and that we have a deficit in our balance-of-payments of nearly another £100 million? Do the noble Baroness and the Government think that we are getting due credit for the amount of assistance that we give, which is the greatest amount that any country gives to that sub-continent?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I think that the aid programme of Her Majesty's present Government is very much praised in all parts of the world and gets us immense credit from the developing countries, whether they be in Asia, Africa or the Pacific.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, may I ask the Minister, in view of the fact that it is suggested that the capital invested in developing countries should be taken into account, whether it is not a fact that tribal authorities were cheated of large mineral resources and land, which were received for a song by those who now control them and on whose capital investment interest is is demanded?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I think this is a rather Byzantine labyrinth, into which I should not follow my noble friend.