§ Lord CASTLEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they recognise the damage being done to the Uffington White Horse by the absence of proper provision for preventing visitors trampling over its outline and what proposals the Government's advisers have for making such provision.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE, DEPARTMENT of the ENVIRONMENT (Baroness Birk)Yes, my Lords, but unfortunately the fence the Department put up in 1973 was not successful. I hope the proposal to make a new car park further away from the horse can be implemented, thus diverting visitors to a place where they will get a better view.
§ Lord CASTLEMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for her sympathetic reply and her obvious solicitude for the welfare of this veteran gelding, I hope that her Department can go a little further than that. May I tell my noble friend that I was there on Friday, taking a watch for an hour, and that, of the 20 people who visited the old gentleman, four ignored the notice put up by her own Department and trampled, two of them with studded shoes, on the most sensitive part of the horse—his yard-wide eye?
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, I was also there on Friday. When I was there, fortunately nobody was treading on the horse. The notice to which my noble friend Lord Castle refers is very small, 1204 and is part of the history of the horse. However, we intend now to erect around the horse notices advising visitors of the damage they are causing. One of the reasons for putting the car park some distance away is that one gets a better view of the horse. People often stand on the horse without knowing they are doing so.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, as a ratepayer in the Valley of the White Horse, may I ask my noble friend Lady Birk whether she is aware of the strong local feeling about this matter? In view of the ancient superstition, that treading on the eye of this unfortunate animal is supposed to bring good luck, would not she agree that nothing short of a barbed wire fence, or one charged with high voltage electricity, is likely to deter any of these vandals from further damaging this ancient monument?
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, we are considering various schemes, including the erection of a fence around a larger area, but I do not think we have taken in hand any measures so draconian and harmful as those suggested by my noble friend.
§ Lord FLETCHERMy Lords, is the noble Baroness, Lady Birk, aware that this is not merely a matter of local interest, but is one of national importance? Would she bear in mind that there may be some aesthetic objections to having this prehistoric monument fenced? Would she consider whether or not it is desirable to have some very emphatic notices around the horse, drawing attention to the serious damage caused by everyone trampling on it?
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, we already have it in hand to put notices there. We hope that the notices will be there even while the next stage is being considered as to how best to protect the horse.
§ Lord MOYNEMy Lords, is it desirable that the fencing may prevent access by sheep? Is not the traditional way of keeping down the grass which surrounds the horse to allow the sheep to graze it? I am asking, because I want to know.
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, this is true; but we think the feet of sheep as well as of humans have been doing some of the damage.
§ Lord CASTLEMy Lords, would my noble friend accept from me that standing on the eye of the White Horse brings good luck? I stood on it when I was five—and look at me now! Will my noble friend also consider further investigation as the holiday season reaches its height? Would she recognise that to some of us who are in love with this unique animal it seems that some form of full-time custodianship, either by paid or voluntary teams, is necessary if the horse is to be protected from its own popularity during the height of the holiday season?
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, this has been discussed by the Countryside Commission. I am sure my noble friend, who has connections with such bodies, could enjoin local organisations to play their part.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, could the site be taken over by the Ministry of Works and could a charge be made for access to this noble animal?
§ Baroness BIRKMy Lords, the guardianship of the site rests with the Department of the Environment, which itself has taken over the old Ministry of Works. The question of a charge would be too complicated and too difficult.