§ 2.52 p.m.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government what proposals they will make to the Summit Meeting at Helsinki for the implementation of the recommendations of the baskets at Geneva on European Security and Co-operation.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, recommendations on how the decisions of the Conference on Security and Co-operation in Europe will be put into effect are included in the Final Act of the Conference which will be signed by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister at the Third Stage of the Conference at Helsinki at the end of this week. A copy of the latest version of the Final Act has been placed in the Library of the House. The test of the success of the Conference will lie in how its decisions are fulfilled, and the noble Lord can be certain that this Government will fully honour their obligations.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, while thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him whether he is aware that I spent the weekend reading this 30,000 word document of recommendations, particularly the proposals regarding implementation? In view of the quite extraordinary concessions which the Soviet Union has made on human rights, and the concessions which the West has made in economic co-operation, does not everything depend upon their implementation if the transformation of Europe to which The Times referred this morning is to be carried out? Is he satisfied that we should leave it for two years until there is a meeting of the officials, before anything 715 obligatory is done to carry out these recommendations?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSYes, my Lords, I entirely agree that the proof of the usefulness of this unprecedented Conference and its decisions will be in the implementation of its agreements by all countries who signed them. As to the way of seeing that implementation is carried out, the general feeling was that time should be given so that all signatory countries would be given a chance of implementing what they had signed. We think that that is right. Of course, their performance will be mutually observed and commented upon in the meantime, and most certainly at the end of that period there will be a conference at which a kind of audit of performance will be rigorously conducted. On the whole, I think it is best to give time for members to show that they mean what they sign before we move on to anything like an institutional check-up on what they are doing.
§ Baroness GAITSKELLMy Lords, could the Minister tell those of us who regard this as a game of basketball that may go on in Helsinki, but who are glad that we are getting together, what are the concessions that the Soviet Union has made?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I do not think that I could exhaust the categories on either side at Question Time. Possibly I might try the patience of the House if I attempted to do that. There are ways in which we might discuss this. We had a useful debate on this at the instance of my noble friend Lord Brockway about two weeks ago. Speaking for myself, and with due regard to the exigencies which beset my noble friend the Lord Privy Seal, I would welcome a further discussion now that the full agreement has been published.
§ Earl COWLEYMy Lords, does the noble Lord recognise that we on this side of the House support realistic moves towards détente? But since the Security Conference was made conditional on MBFR, may I ask what incentives the Government will give the Russians and the Warsaw Pact countries to end the stalemate in those talks now that the Security Conference documents are to be signed on Wednesday?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I think that two factors arising from the CSCE should help to make MBFR more practical in results. First, there are certain provisions in the CSCE on confidence-building which I shall not go into in detail today but which should stimulate a faster pace of agreement in MBFR. Secondly, now that we have the CSCE settled, as it were, the scarce and highly qualified manpower hitherto engrossed in the CSCE should be available to speed up the discussions in Vienna.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, while appreciating that this quite astonishing document will require consideration by various Governments, may I ask the Minister whether it would not be possible for the United Nations European Commission on Economic Co-operation in these two years to set up working parties between the Governments to work out these plans in detail? May it not be possible to establish a human rights commission, which will enable us to draw attention to any infringements by the Soviet Union of the decisions to which it has pleged itself?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I have indicated as briefly as I could the Government's view, and that of other Governments, on the question of setting up institutions ahead of practical experience of the working of the agreements. I think it would be wise to let this run to see how it works and who works it, before we get down to the detailed question of prescriptive observance by institutions of how the agreements are working. I understand my noble friend's concern that this should not simply be something on paper, but, as no doubt my right honourable friend will say in Helsinki, as indeed all Heads of State who have pronounced on this have already said, the proof of this is in the implementation. This is not a legal document: it is a statement of standards for European countries to reach. They should be implemented, and we shall be very concerned to see that they are.
§ The Earl of ONSLOWMy Lords, would the noble Lord tell us his ideas on the free movement of people, for instance, from Czechoslovakia and Hungary, peradventure, across into 717 Western Europe? Secondly, could he tell us how the balance of forces in Russia and Eastern Europe vis-à-vis Western Europe has changed since the discussions have been going on in Helsinki?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSOn the second technical question, my Lords, not without notice. On the first, in Basket III there are very detailed provisions for the free movement of persons for personal, professional or, indeed, religious reasons from one country to another. If only that part of the agreement was faithfully carried out it would prove a great boon to many people in Europe.