ISRAEL AND THE UNITED NATIONS (Hansard, 22 July 1975)

Lord JANNER
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)
My Lords, we are closely watching the situation referred to in the first part of the Question, and are in touch with a number of Governments about it. As for the second part, UNESCO is the only specialised Agency which has limited the participation of Israel in its activities. The United Kingdom voted against the UNESCO resolution which invited the Director-General to withhold assistance from Israel in the 154 fields of education, science and culture. We voted in favour of Israel's being allowed to participate in the European Regional Grouping.

Lord JANNER
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for the first part of his reply. In the event of the kind of strategy that at present is being used against Israel by five or six of the specialised Agencies and the ultimate consequent result, that a resolution was passed at the Jeddah Conference, is ray noble friend prepared to say categorically that if these vicious schemes are pursued to the extent of receiving a satisfactory reply to those views at the United Nations he will join America in vetoing any such suggestion? May I further ask him whether he will reconsider the matter of the specialised Agencies because four or five, if not more, of the specialised Agencies have passed resolutions against Israel although they know very well that Israel is foremost in her work in carrying out the objectives of those specialised Agencies?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, UNESCO is the only specialised Agency which has limited the participation of Israel in its activities. Other Agencies may from time to time have passed resolutions or expressed opinions on certain matters involving Israel. On the first point in my noble friend's question, we shall certainly vote against any move to suspend or expel Israel from the United Nations Organisation.

§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONE
My Lords, is there not a general point of great importance here? Is it not essential for the future of the United Nations that it should be the Parliament of mankind and not a select company of the elect of mankind? If we start to exclude Members of whom we do not approve, I wonder how many Members the Government think will be left?

§ Baroness GAITSKELL
My Lords, is it not becoming very urgent—

§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONE
My Lords, I should like an answer to my question.

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, the answer is that the noble Lord has put fully and conclusively the view of 155 Her Majesty's Government on the situation.

§ Baroness GAITSKELL
My Lords, in view of the fact that the procedures in the United Nations are becoming so complex and so unfair, may I ask the Minister whether it is not very urgent at this time that both Britain and the Western countries should get together to oppose this double standard, in view of the Afro-Asian majority in the United Nations and in view, too, of the double standards about human rights? If we do not do this, is it not possible that Britain herself will be on the list for expulsion because she has suspended certain human rights in Northern Ireland during the Emergency there?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, my noble friend draws attention to the unmistakable implications of the kind of policy and attitude which for some years now has increasingly been adopted by certain countries in the United Nations Organisation. I think we could join what my noble friend has said to what has been said by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone. Together their views represent the view of Her Majesty's Government and, I believe, that of the whole House in relation to this serious threat to the survival of the United Nations as an organisation.

§ Lord MAYBRAY-KING
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that, despite the Jeddah decision, this is a critical point of time in Middle East relations? There is a possibility of peace in the Middle East, and most of the Members of this House will wish both our friends in Egypt and our friends in Israel to agree to the settlement which is now within their grasp.

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, there is certainly the possibility of a settlement. The discussions which are now taking place hold out some hope for such a settlement, and it is precisely at that point that the danger of this kind of move is most marked.

Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTON
My Lords, does not the difficulty go a little further? Now that the United Nations is a Fascist organisation, in the 156 sense that a permanent majority are ruled by one-Party States subject to dictatorship, and a racialist organisation, in the sense that a permanent minority deny equal rights to their citizens because of religious and racialist reasons, is not the point coming when we shall have seriously to consider whether our continued membership is consistent with our principles?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I am certainly very glad to join my noble friend in any denunciation of religious and racial prejudice.

§ Lord GLADWYN
My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether or not it is a fact that in 1952 Egypt refused to abide by a perfectly valid decision of the Security Council regarding the free passage of Israeli merchantmen through the Suez Canal, and that there was then no question of Egypt being excluded from the Security Council or expelled from the United Nations?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, with great respect, it may be more helpful if we do not go into historical detail and apportion blame in a situation whore, as my noble friend Lord Maybray-King has said, there is the possibility of a settlement if everybody will behave with basic common sense and good will.

§ The Earl of ONSLOW
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that many of us who think that the Arabs have been badly done by and badly treated by the establishment of the State of Israel and by their further expansion, believe that it is not in the interests of the Arabs for this narrow-minded attitude of mind to be taken to the expulsion of Israel not only from the United Nations but also from the Agencies of the United Nations?

Lord JANNER
My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord a further question? In addition to the United Nations Agency which he has mentioned—UNESCO—there is the World Health Organisation and the recent Women's Year meeting which was held in Mexico when, of all things, a resolution was passed in which an attack was made on the basic principles of the most democratic country in the Middle East, Israel, where women's 157 rights are fully respected and where a woman has been Prime Minister. Is it not a fact that we abstain on some of these occasions from voting against such resolutions, and does not my noble friend realise that by doing so we are giving an incentive to those who wish to destroy Israel to carry on with their work of destruction?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I repeat that the only specialised Agency which has limited Israel's participation is UNESCO. I repeat also that from time to time other Agencies have no doubt misused the agenda and procedure to express opinions on the behaviour of one State or another, often that of the State of Israel. I want to make absolutely clear to my noble friend that this country has consistently resisted any attempt to condemn Israel on political grounds during discussion on the agendas of Special Agencies. Sometimes a resolution has been tabled which contains the gravamen of the purpose of the Conference but mixed with it a political attack. In such a situation, an explanation of abstention of vote is recognised to be a resistance to the political part of the resolution while an acceptance of the proper part of the resolution relating to the proper business of the Conference.

§ Lord BROCKWAY
My Lords, while very strongly welcoming the decision of Her Majesty's Government to oppose the exclusion of Israel from the United Nations on the principles so admirably stated by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hailsham, may I ask whether it is relevant to the present situation, and not just past history, that we should also urge Israel to carry out the resolutions which were adopted by the Security Council and which Israel has ignored?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
Yes, of course, my Lords, and the resolutions to which my noble friend refers have the unanimous support of the entire UNO; and the negotiations now going on, with some prospect of success, as I have said, are designed to get the various parties together to observe and implement precisely those resolutions. This is not an easy matter, and it is not helped by partisan moves of this kind to exclude one of the parties from membership of the world authority.

§ Lord SHEPHERD
My Lords, I suggest that we should now move to next business.