§ 2.45 p.m.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what is their policy towards the unilateral claim by Iceland to a 200-mile fishery limit.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, Her Majesty's Ambassador in Reykjavik has made it clear to the Icelandic Government that we regret this claim to a 200-mile fishing limit. However, I welcome the assurance that the Icelandic Government have given that they are prepared to discuss the application of their proposed new regulations with us. We are pressing for the opening of talks at the earliest possible moment.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his statement. While such unilateral action by Iceland is unfortunate, though not unexpected, is the noble Lord aware that there is now almost unanimous agreement, in principle, in the world on a 200-mile economic zone, but that the signing of a treaty is being delayed by matters other than those concerned with fishing? Because of the urgency of this matter for the fishing industry, will the Government now seek to sponsor regional arrangements in the North-East Atlantic area for fish conservation, with the 200-mile zone in prospect, as suggested from this Bench in the debate on 9th June?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I take note of the noble Lord's suggestion that a regional arrangement might be discussed. We shall certainly engage as soon as possible in bilateral discussions with the Icelandic Government, with whom we are on the very best of terms and have no dispute, apart from an occasional dispute about this industry which is vital to them and to many communities in this country. The fishing industry is of great importance to many communities in Britain. I shall not comment at the moment on the regional proposal made by the noble Lord, except to say that I personally find it attractive.
§ Lord KENNETMy Lords, would the Government bear in mind in developing their policy on this matter that what has been done by Iceland is likely to be done, before the year is out, by the United States, Canada and Norway, and that the entire British fishing industry would like Her Majesty's Government to do the very same as far as we ourselves are concerned?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, it is a fact, as was mentioned earlier, that there is a practical consensus that a 200-mile limit should be formalised in due course as a result of the deliberations at the United Nations Law of the Sea Conference. On the other hand, as my noble friend has said, not only Iceland but other countries as well are moving ahead of the formalisation of this consensus, and it behoves us to do what we can to expedite bilateral and, possibly, regional discussions on this matter.
§ Lord SLATERMy Lords, may I ask why the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Croy, has raised the question of regionalism? I was always under the impression that we sought to act as a nation in regard to this dispute which has been with us for so long. If we are to drift into regionalism, we shall not be able to achieve what we first set out to do.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for underlining the importance of the bilateral approaches—and he is quite right about this—which we must make to our Icelandic friends. In finding the possibility of regional action attractive, I can assure him that this is simply a canvas of a possible solution for the North Sea area, on the basis of bilateral satisfaction between various countries. For instance, we are not the only European country which is in difficulty with our Icelandic friends on this matter, and the Federal Republic of Germany has an outstanding, and so far unresolved, problem in this connection. No doubt they, too, will seek in due course a bilateral solution, but it is additionally helpful to think in terms of a composite regional arrangement for the North Sea area.
§ Lord LLOYD of KILGERRANMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend the 8 Minister, in fairness to the Icelandic Government, whether it is not right, in view of the happy relations between the United Kingdom and Icelandic Governments, that the Icelandic Government have in fact offered some sort of licence—provisional, no doubt—to the United Kingdom fishing industry to fish within this 200-mile area?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I could not confirm precisely what the noble Lord has said about the issue of a licence in that area. The 1973 Agreement was designed to restrict the catch by specifying closed areas for certain periods of the year, and also placing certain limitations on the size and type of craft. The licence, if I understand the noble Lord precisely, was embodied in the Agreement which was signed in November 1973. But if I have not got the noble Lord's question aright, perhaps he will enlighten me after Questions.
Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTONMy Lords, can the noble Lord give us any indication as to whom, at the end of these negotiations, the English Channel is likely to belong?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I hesitate to reply to my noble friend, except to say that everything he says is very carefully listened to by me.
§ Lord GLENKINGLASMy Lords, will the noble Lord bear in mind that in the past when these negotiations have taken place with either Iceland or Norway, the British Government have tended to come into line (if that is the right expression) perhaps a year later, by which time a great deal of damage has been caused by foreign fishermen inside our own, at that time, territorial limits. In this case, will the noble Lord please ensure that whatever is arranged, whether bilaterally, regionally or in any other way, operates simultaneously for foreign boats fishing in our waters and our boats fishing in theirs?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, there is great point in what the noble Lord has said. These arrangements must be reciprocal and also coincidental, chronologically and in every way. I take the point.
§ Lord KENNETMy Lords, when the Government are planning the North Sea 9 regional arrangement, of which my noble friend so wisely spoke, will they make sure that it really is an arrangement among North Sea States and pay close attention to the question where the Russian fishing fleet, which as they know catches far more than any other fleet in the world, will go to maintain its catch level after the 200-mile EEZs are established all around both sides of the North Atlantic?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSYes, indeed, my Lords. It is partly what all of us have in mind when we think in terms of a regional arrangement. Not only the immediate European coastal States are involved; there is a Russian interest and intervention.
§ The Earl of ONSLOWMy Lords, are the Government aware that these difficulties of conservation and increase of fishing limit zones point inexorably to the need for a greater use of factory-farmed fish in our own areas and in other areas?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I am sure the Government are aware of all the implications of this, I hope, small difficulty which we have with our Icelandic friends.