§ 3.11 p.m.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the increased postal rates, both actual and proposed, they will ask the Post Office to consider the issue of a cheap stamp for Christmas cards, provided these are posted by a certain date.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, DEPARTMENT of INDUSTRY (Lord Beswick)My Lords, the introduction of any such scheme would be a matter for the Post Office who, I know, have given the suggestion careful thought in the past. It would not be appropriate for the Government to press the Post Office at this 1346 time for this concession, but I will ensure that the proposal of the noble Baroness is considered.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that Answer, may I ask whether he would agree that if we had a really cheap Christmas stamp the Post Office would sell millions of stamps from which they would receive revenue they probably sorely need? Bearing in mind that I have asked that the cards shall be posted well beforehand, does he not agree that if we do not have cheap Christmas stamps people will be unable to send cards? Can my noble friend say whether there is any hope in that direction?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, as to the calculation or estimate that the total revenue from Christmas card traffic at the present postage rate will be less than it would be at a lower rate, my own personal view, and it is only a hunch, is that the noble Baroness is probably right. The difficulty about the scheme that she originally put forward was the possibility of abuse. It would be difficult to tell what was and what was not a Christmas card.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, on that matter may I ask the Minister whether he would agree that if we had a special Christmas stamp which was date stamped with a certain date, that would obviate the difficulty about which he has spoken?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, the question of a special Christmas stamp would not obviate the difficulty because that stamp could be put on any letter. As my noble friend knows, because I discussed it with her, much more hopeful is the proposal that there should be a cheaper rate for letters which would be subject to a greater delivery time, and which might be posted before a given date. That is the matter which I will ensure the Post Office Board considers.
§ Lord KILMANYMy Lords, arising out of that reply, may I ask the noble Lord whether he will bear in mind that there are important considerations of sentiment, religion, family feeling and good comradeship concerned with this question? Would it not be a great pity to do anything which would discourage relations far apart from keeping in touch 1347 with one another at Christmas time? Equally, that would prevent comrades all over the world, not necessarily of one country, from keeping in touch with one another on this particular occasion. Could the Government ask the Post Office to reconsider the matter from that point of view?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, that is one point of view which the noble Lord shares with me and, I have no doubt, with the overwhelming majority in this House. I accept what he has said. As I have said, my personal view is that the total revenue could be less if the rate of postage were as high as is now intended. These are matters for the Post Office; the decision is theirs. I have undertaken, however, to see that that point of view is properly considered.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNE-SIDEMy Lords, will the noble Lord bear in mind, having regard to his very disappointing reply, that many manufacturers of Chrismas cards will be put out of employment? Therefore, there are two problems: helping people to send Christmas cards, and helping the people who will produce the Christmas cards.
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, that is also another factor. I am disappointed that the noble Baroness thinks my reply was disappointing: I have said that I will ensure, to the best of my ability, that the point is considered.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that many national charities are heavily dependent on the income which they derive from the sale of Christmas cards, and are deeply concerned about the anticipated fall in sales as a result of the increased postal charges? Could my noble friend urge the Post Office to make an early announcement regarding this?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, my noble friend can make great speeches about this, but it is also a fact that people are making great speeches about cutting down the Post Office deficit. The Post Office are committed to cutting the deficit. If we have a scheme which is open to abuse, we have to recognise their arguments. I have already said that there is an aspect of this matter which warrants further consideration, and I will see that that consideration is given.
§ Baroness WOOTTON of ABINGERMy Lords, would my noble friend think it worth while to suggest to the Post Office that the difficulty of the special stamp might be overcome if the Post Office were to issue specially franked envelopes marked "Christmas card only" which would have to be sent unsealed?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, we have absolutely no guarantee that something else will not be put in those specially marked envelopes. I do not think a special stamp is relevant; it is the rate of postage which is important. It would be possible to have a lower rate of postage and, as I have said, that is a matter which will be considered.
Lord GRENFELLMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that, as has been said, many charities get most of their revenue from Christmas cards? Noble Lords will agree that in these difficult times we should encourage all charities to play their part. A small reduction in the postal charges would be of great assistance to charities, and to those who send Christmas cards.
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, that is a point which, with others, I will see is considered.
§ Lord MAELORMy Lords, would the Minister agree that even if these stamps are wrongly used, it will pay the Post Office handsomely if millions rather than a few score of Christmas cards are send through the post?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, if my noble friend wants to know, I will tell him, in confidence, that I have had a private wager with certain people that if the Post Office charge the present rate on Christmas cards their total revenue will be less than it would otherwise. But it still remains the fact that the system which has been suggested is open to such abuse that the total revenue from other non-Christmas card postage could be lessened. It is a complicated matter and I hope that the House will leave it at that.
§ Baroness GAITSKELLMy Lords, would not the same argument apply to raising the ordinary stamp charges higher and higher? Would it be subject to the law of diminishing returns in revenue?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, the fact is that the first-class postal traffic, has, I understand, already decreased by 26 per cent.