HL Deb 08 July 1975 vol 362 cc714-8
The Lord Bishop of LONDON

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government when they propose to issue a regulation to give effect to Section 7 of the Road Traffic Act 1974.

Lord MELCHETT

My Lords, my honourable friend the Minister for Transport intends to make a decision in the near future on the commencement of this section. A major consideration must be the cost to local authorities of implementing and enforcing the section at a time when the Government are asking local authorities to keep their expenditure at current levels.

The Lord Bishop of LONDON

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. Is he aware that the Road Traffic Act has now been on the Statute Book for nearly a year, that it is part of the law of the land, and that the dangerous nuisance of parking motor cars on the footway has certainly not abated and is possibly increasing? Therefore, will he ask his honourable friend to regard this as a matter of urgency?

Lord MELCHETT

My Lords, I am aware of how long this law has been on the Statute Book, and I am also aware of the problems with which this section deals. I will certainly see that the right reverend Prelate's views are passed to my honourable friend. As I have said, considerations of public cost must be paramount at the moment.

Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTON

My Lords, does this not show that urgency, in the Government's view, is as demonstrated in the supplementary question I asked yesterday? The Ministry was considering the question two years ago, an Act was passed dealing with another matter a year ago, but still nothing is happening.

Lord MELCHETT

My Lords, according to my arithmetic it would not be possible, even with the noble Lord opposite at the Department of the Environment, for the Department to be considering a section of the Road Traffic Act 1974 two years ago.

Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTON

My Lords, I think that the noble Lord is being a little unfair. He heard his noble friend Lady Birk, a Minister in his Department, refer to another matter which I mentioned yesterday. That was being urgently looked into two years ago and she said yesterday that it is still being urgently looked into now. Taking all these factors together, I think one can add up one and one.

Lord GARDINER

My Lords, is there not an increasing tendency by Government to take advantage of a provision that different sections of an Act can be brought into force at different times, and never to bring a section they do not like into force at all? How can this be squared with the authority of Parliament?

Lord MELCHETT

My Lords, the fact is that a great deal of work needs to be done before this section can be brought into force. The section in question deals with parking on footpaths and footways, and it is necessary for local authorities to carry out surveys to see which roads must be exempted from what will be a mandatory order. If it was brought into force immediately, the effect would be that people would be prosecuted for parking in places where it was quite reasonable for them to park.

Lord BARNBY

My Lords, could the Minister give any indication of the extent to which there have been accidents to blind people because of parking on pave- ments? There is evidence in the Metropolitan area of a rather rapid increase in the parking of vehicles on footpaths and pathways.

Lord MELCHETT

My Lords, the noble Lord opposite mentioned the Metropolitan area, and that gives me the chance to say that I understand that local authorities in London assign a greater measure of priority to this matter than authorities do elsewhere. The Greater London Council has powers to ban parking on verges and footways under its 1974 General Powers Act, and it is for that Council to implement this section when it sees fit.

Lord POPPLEWELL

My Lords, while accepting that there are difficulties involved in applying this section, may I ask my noble friend whether he can indicate what steps are being taken with a view to having consultations with the appropriate authorities? What machinery is being established? When does he expect measures to come to fruition to deal with this growing evil, which is concentrated not only in London but is all over the country and creating great inconvenience?

Lord MELCHETT

My Lords, consultations have taken place with local authorities all over the country. As I said in my original Answer, the main problem at the moment must be the question of public expenditure.

Lord INGLEWOOD

My Lords, so that we may assess the urgency of this problem, can the noble Lord tell us for what other purposes footpaths may be used besides the parking of cars?

Lord MELCHETT

My Lords, if the noble Lord really wants me to tell him, footpaths are used for people to walk on.

Lord LEATHERLAND

My Lords, is my noble friend aware—

Several Noble Lords: Order, order!

The LORD PRIVY SEAL (Lord Shepherd)

My Lords, I believe that the noble Lord, Lord Platt, has been struggling to intervene. Perhaps my noble friend will permit him to do so.

Lord PLATT

My Lords, as one who sympathises with the aims of this section but always thought it quite impracticable, am I to understand from the noble Lord that there is a hope that it will never be put into action? If it is, will there be some special arrangements for doctors who, in the course of their work, have to park a car and are not for the time being either saving life or extinguishing fires?

Lord MELCHETT

My Lords, the answer to the first part of the noble Lord's supplementary question is, No. The answer to the second part is that I understand that exemptions will not be made for particular categories of people parking cars—doctors or anyone else. But roads where it is felt to be safe or reasonable for people to park on the verges or footpaths will be exempted.

Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTON

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that in a previous incarnation the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester carried an Amendment against the Government's Bill in those days, on which I was answering, and I answered against the then Bishop of Chester? When he later carried it, we in the then Government took note of what heavenly bodies were supporting him from all sides of the House, and gave way. It is rather disappointing, we having given way in those days in response to those heavenly bodies—and he has now been translated into even higher spheres in the heavenly bodies of this country—that the Government of today have not taken more note.

Lord MELCHETT

My Lords, I am not responsible for the fact that the noble Lord opposite is no longer responsible for this matter.

Lord LEATHERLAND

My Lords, is my noble friend aware of the fact that there are two sides to this question? Is he aware of the fact that if the cars are removed from the footpath, or from half of the footpath as is usually the case, they will have to be parked in the roadway? And if they are parked in the roadway they form an obstacle to neighbours who are trying to drive their cars out of their own garages. Is he aware that this causes a great number of accidents?

Lord MELCHETT

My Lords, I am not aware of how many accidents that causes. But I am aware that exemptions will be made, as I have said several times, on roads where it is felt sensible to make exemptions.

Lord DERWENT

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that Questions have been going on for 19 minutes and there is another one to come?

Lord SHEPHERD

My Lords, I would entirely agree with the noble Lord. I wonder whether noble Lords will look at Hansard tomorrow to see the length of the supplementary questions, in the light of the criticism yesterday by the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition of my noble friend on this Bench.