§ 3.14 p.m.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what proportion of the signatory States have ratified the 1973 London Convention on the Prevention of Pollution at Sea and whether it is yet in force.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, 16 States, including the United Kingdom, have signed the Convention, of which only Australia has effectively ratified. It is not yet in force.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that Answer. As the Convention covers toxic substances as well as oil, and since many thousands of birds have been killed by those substances in recent years around our coasts, will the Government do all they can to encourage other countries to ratify this Convention?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMost certainly, my Lords, for the reason given in the noble Lord's supplementary question and also because of the point he made previously when we were dealing with the first Question.
§ Baroness WHITEMy Lords, can my noble friend now, perhaps, answer my previous supplementary question, if he thinks it is relevant to this Question?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the Prevention of Pollution of the Sea by Oil Convention 1954 led to certain provisions in this field which were found to be inadequate. As my noble friend knows, there were further international conferences which resulted in the Conference of 1973 that yielded this Convention. The results of the Convention, when it is ratified and implemented, should indeed meet the point my noble friend has raised.
§ Baroness WHITEMy Lords, is my noble friend not aware that, in the first place, it will be a long time before the 1973 Convention is effected; and, 405 secondly, it is important that the 1969 Amendments to the 1954 Convention are ratified? He may not be fully apprised of the genuine importance of the 1969 Amendments to the 1954 Convention. Can he assure me that Her Majesty's Government will use all their diplomatic efforts to obtain ratification of those Amendments?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, we are fully apprised of the importance of those Amendments, which to some extent span the gap between the 1954 Agreement and the Agreements we are now trying to get ratified. We are constantly seeking ways to achieve their implementation. Nevertheless, it is of great importance that this composite Convention and Protocol should be signed and ratified by the greatest number of maritime nations, including this country, and we are pressing forward with this larger purpose.
§ Earl COWLEYMy Lords, can the noble Lord tell the House whether all the major flag States—for example, Panama and Liberia—have actually signed the Convention? If they have not, does he not feel that this might reduce the effectiveness of the Convention when it comes into effect?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I do not think so.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, I notice that neither the United States, the Soviet Union nor Greece, for instance, appeared on the list which the noble Lord gave in dealing with the last Question. Have any of those countries signed or ratified the Convention with which the present Question deals?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, it is quite true that, in regard to the compensation provisions, the countries which the noble and learned Lord has mentioned do not figure so far. There is rather a long list in regard to the Convention we are now discussing. If he agrees, I shall, in response to a Written Question, give the full details. If the list were read out, it might prove a little misleading, because here and there are certain derogations and reservations by individual member-States which ought to 406 be included with a statement setting out the list of countries.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEYes, my Lords, but what is the situation regarding the Soviet Union and the United States of America?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I believe that so far neither of them has signed. But I will check on this, and, if the noble and learned Lord wishes it, provide a full list of those who have signed or not signed.
§ Lord LLOYD of KILGERRANMy Lords, reverting to a question of which the nobler Lord would require notice, may I ask whether the Government would be sympathetic to an application that no tanker over 50,000 tons should be allowed to proceed the entire length of the English Channel?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I would not care to comment on that point in this exchange. It would need some consideration and consultation inter-Departmentally.
§ Earl COWLEYMy Lords, can the noble Lord say to which part of my question he gave his answer? Cannot he also insert the list of the States to which he referred in the Official Report?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I could indeed, with any necessary addenda qualifying the attitude of individual members.