§ 3.7 p.m.
§ Lord HYLTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper. Perhaps I may take this opportunity of declaring my own interest as a farmer.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are taking to minimise the very adverse effects on the gross earnings of British farmers of the " green pound " and the " transitional period ".
§ The MINISTER of STATE, DEPARTMENT of INDUSTRY (Lord Beswick)My Lords, the difficulties which have arisen have not been primarily due to the monetary and transitional arrangements. Last October, the monetary arrangements and sterling's representative rate for agricultural purposes were adjusted so as to reduce the compensatory amounts payable on a 1418 number of products and to provide import subsidies on all our cereals imports to the benefit of the livestock sector. Adjustments were agreed last night as part of the Common Agricultural Policy price package: full details will be announced as soon as possible. The transitional arrangements were negotiated by the previous Government, but from the beginning of this year we have moved to full EEC support prices for sugar beet.
§ Lord HYLTONMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that reply. May I ask whether he is aware that both these issues have been a serious brake on farming in this country and have contributed to the undermining of confidence?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, I am not altogether sure that I agree with the noble Lord. Certainly the influence has been exaggerated, but to the extent to which the present rate—the so-called " green pound "—has meant a subsidy on imports of cereals, it has helped the livestock producer in the shape of cheaper feedstocks.
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the Irish " green pound" was devalued more than the British " green pound" last September, which gave the Irish advantages over the British in so far as their exports came to England to the disadvantage of the producers at home ? Is one to understand from the noble Lord's reply that this has now been redressed?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, that depends on what the noble Earl means by " redressed ". There have been adjustments. The fact of the matter is that they were made up to 6 o'clock this morning, and I am not absolutely aware of what the consequence will be. I agree that this difficulty with the Irish situation has been in the minds of my right honourable friends, and if we could control the illicit movement of cattle from Northern Ireland to Southern Ireland to any extent it would, of course, be of great advantage. It is hoped that some partial solution, at any rate, may be found.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, will the noble Lord think of supplying us all with a glossary to explain such terms as " green pound " and " Irish green pound "?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, I share the noble and learned Lord's impatience with the Brussels jargon. I am glad to see that he now concedes that there are some weaknesses in the EEC system.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, if the noble Lord thinks that that is the worst weakness, I think that we can get on very well together.
§ Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEYMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that even the humblest of us have realised that we think we are being taken for a ride over this question of the " green pound "? Is the noble Lord aware that there are some very disturbing stories that there may be a difference of up to 25 per cent. between our prices and theirs, because of the " green pound"? Would he therefore be prepared to ask his right honourable friend to say what is the exact rate today? Also, is he aware that this differential is stopping investment in agriculture which will put us at a disadvantage in the long term? Finally, if this is so, would he be prepared temporarily to increase the capital grants, and in particular, of course, to reintroduce the fencing grant?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, at the risk of incurring the displeasure of the noble Lord opposite, I can say that sterling's representative rate at the beginning of 1973 was 2.1644 UAs. The noble Lord will be aware of what a UA is. Last October it was changed to 2.0053 UAs, and what the consequence will be of the allnight sitting last night in Brussels I am not exactly able to say.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, can the noble Lord tell me how many UAs go to the Irish " green pound "?
Lord WYNNE JONESMy Lords, can my noble friend say whether it is the pound that is green or the supporters of the Common Market?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, this is an interesting point. I should probably say that the " green pound " is the representative rate, fixed for agricultural purposes, between the EEC unit of account and the pound sterling. This is a different rate from the rate to be found in the open money market.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend, when the laughter has subsidised, whether we are not having an indication almost every day when Questions are asked, or in the course of the day's newspapers, that all the deficiencies are now being exposed in connection with accession to the Treaty of Rome?
§ Lord O'HAGANMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that, in order to help serious discussion in this House and in the country before the Referendum, Her Majesty's Government have a duty to explain these terms so that everybody in the country can understand what they mean? Would the noble Lord agree that while it may be amusing in the short term to poke fun at this complicated and bizarre terminology, in the long run it will prevent the British people from having a serious look at this issue if Her Majesty's Government, and Ministers in it, make the whole subject into a laughing stock?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, I think that the noble Lord has a point. But I do not believe that a Question and Answer period is the best time to explain the subtleties of these matters.