§ 2.53 p.m.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will reconsider the maintenance of the Simonstown Agreement with the Government of the Republic of South Africa.
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS)My Lords, as I made clear during the Defence and Foreign Affairs debate on November 5, i the naval arrangements arising from the Simonstown Agreement are being reviewed and we shall report to the House in due course.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, while thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him this question? In view of the argument that the Simonstown base is necessary to defend sea routes in the Indian Ocean, will Her Majesty's Government take the initiative in the Security Council to support the demand of all the Asian nations bordering the Indian Ocean to neutralise that whole area?
§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, we have made it clear that in the course of the Defence Review every aspect of this country's security, and indeed the international implications involved, will be very carefully considered, including the matters to which my noble friend has referred.
§ LORD HARVEY OF PRESTBURYMy Lords, will the noble Lord bear in mind the fact that the British merchant fleet is still one of the largest in the world and our defences arc being continually cut down by successive Governments? Ought we not to take a very 690 broad view and not mix up aparthei. with the defence of our merchant fleet?
§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, we shall certainly take this broad view. We shall weigh our security interests carefully against the wider British interests in Africa.
§ LORD AVEBURYMy Lords, does the noble Lord think that playing games such as rugby and cricket gives encouragement to the racists in South Africa, or indulging in military exercises with their forces?
§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the noble Lord must not expect me to say one word against rugby. Indeed, I hope we can get away from being too punctilious about sports relationships, and can concentrate on creating the proper basis for a fruitful friendship with all countries. We are hoping that the climate of opinion may be changing in Southern Africa and that this country can contribute to that better state of affairs.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, would my noble friend and Her Majesty's Government have regard, in considering the situation arising out of the Simonstown Agreement, that entirely apart from the military aspects it is desirable that Simons town should be available even for the purpose of becoming occasionally a harbour or refuge for merchant vessels?
§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord's point is very much in the mind of the Government in their very objective and detailed examination of this issue.
§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALEMy Lords, while welcoming the Minister's statement that he hopes for the best—unusual for him—will he agree with me that it does not very much matter whether the Agreement is abrogated? What matters is that the port should be available for ships of all navies, on the Western side of the world at any rate, which need to refit or to get oil and water.
§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTSYes, indeed, my Lords. This will form part not only of our Review but also of our impending discussions with the South African Republic.