§ 2.57 p.m.
§ LORD AMULREEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will consider establishing clinics under the National Health Service for people who need help in ridding themselves of the habit of smoking.
113§ LORD WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, hospital authorities and local health authorities had powers to run antismoking clinics under the National Health Service, and did in fact do so for many years. In the re-organised National Health Service the new health authorities have similar powers and will be able, if they so wish, to continue the existing clinics and to establish additional ones for people who need help in giving up smoking.
§ LORD AMULREEMy Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord for that helpful reply, and I am pleased to tell him that I have no supplementary question that I wish to put to him.
LORD ST. JUSTMy Lords, can the noble Lord give us a guarantee that in these clinics no form of aversion treatment will be given?
§ LORD WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I cannot give that assurance to the noble Lord, for the simple reason that the method of treatment most generally used is group counselling and individual counselling, and sometimes it is a combination of both; but I must inform the noble Lord that in a number of clinics, on occasions, they resort to the use of hypnotherapy, aversion treatment and chemotherapy. Normally, a course of treatment, which is attended by between 15 and 20 persons, would be of one session of 1½ to 2 hours a week over a period of five weeks; but, as I say, I have to inform the noble Lord that aversion treatment is available at some clinics.
§ LORD SEGALMy Lords, in view of the alarming extent to which this unfortunate habit still persists, could not the Government undertake a new initiative to assist some of these more tragic addicts?
§ LORD WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I think the only thing I can say in reply to my noble friend is that a good deal of advertisement has been devoted towards, and a good deal has been done to encourage, the setting up of such clinics. In the early 1960s, following the First Report of the Royal College of Physicians on Smoking and Health, about 30 experimental clinics were opened, but over the years the number declined, and by the end of last May only about one-third 114 of the original number were in existence. What has occurred is that, in addition to the number of clinics run by local authorities, a number of peripatetic clinics have been run by the British Temperance Society. However, having regard to the number of those who are addicted to smoking, the number of people using the clinics is very small indeed. I think that perhaps it would be of interest to your Lordships to know that the Government are at the present moment looking at this matter to see whether something can be done to encourage attendance at such clinics.
§ LORD ALPORTMy Lords, may I ask whether the Minister's attention has been drawn to the fact that experts in the medical profession have very recently advised us that we should not eat sugar, drink tea or smoke, take any alcohol or drink milk, because all these things are deleterious to your health? May I further ask: What is left?
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether, in view of the arrogant attitude of some nonsmokers, it is possible to provide them with treatment?
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, would the noble Lord tell me whether, in view of the fact that prevention is better than cure, teachers are asked to give talks on this matter in schools?
§ LORD WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, in reply to that last question by my noble friend, I have no information. This is an interesting point, because undoubtedly matters which give rise to a certain amount of social disorder can be dealt with in the educational field. If my noble friend will agree, I should like to look into this point and send to her in the normal way any information which I am able to obtain.
THE EARL OF ARRANMy Lords, I am sorry to intervene once more, but may I ask Her Majesty's Government whether they would agree that, although a certain amount of facetiousness has been displayed regarding this question, we are here dealing with a subject of life and death?
§ LORD WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, that is perfectly true. Unfortunately, people do not seem to want to avail 115 themselves of the clinics that have been in operation for a good many years.
§ BARONESS BROOKE OF YSTRADFELLTEMy Lords, would the noble Lord look into what is happening in America regarding the use of propaganda in schools? I think he will probably find that some dissension is now arising between children and parents when the children come home and sing to their parents the kind of stuff that is now being encouraged in the States.
§ LORD WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Baroness. This is a matter I should like to look into.
§ LORD HALEMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that if he were to set up clinics to teach people that chess was more fun than fornication he would make a notable contribution to the Population Year, reduce the incidence of venereal disease, increase the output of the British rubber industry and perhaps bring the world chess championship to Britain for the first time in our history?