HL Deb 17 July 1974 vol 353 cc1122-4

3.8 p.m.

VISCOUNT HAN WORTH

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what they consider the nationalisation of major industrial companies will contribute at this time of national crisis to the economic welfare of this country; and whether, in view of the lack of support from the electorate for such action at the present time, they will reconsider their policy in this respect and restore public confidence to the industries so threatened.

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, the Government will decide and Parliament will be invited to approve proposals for public ownership on their merits in the light of the national interest. I do not accept the assumptions on which the noble Viscount based the second part of his Question.

VISCOUNT HANWORTH

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. May I ask him whether he realises that at this time many people believe the most important thing is national unity, and that this transcends even the problem of inflation? Does he really believe that putting forward a measure of this nature, which is, after all, thought by many to be extremist and ideological, helps the present situation?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I am not quite sure to which measure the noble Viscount is referring. To the best of my knowledge, the only measure of nationalisation which has been brought forward this year was in connection with Court Line, and it was a measure which was asked for by the company concerned. The only measure of nationalisation in previous years was in connection with Rolls-Royce and that was brought forward by the previous Administration because it was absolutely inevitable.

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, might I ask the noble Lord by what criterion the Government will judge which industries should come under public ownership?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, certainly the noble Lord can ask, but I am not sure that he would expect me, in question and answer, to answer him. I hope that this will be one of the matters which we shall discuss in the debate which I understand we are to have in the week after next.

LORD BYERS

My Lords, the noble Lord said that Court Line is the only case. Can we take that as an assurance that no further industries are to be nationalised in the lifetime of this Government?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, what the noble Lord can take is that the Answer I gave to the noble Viscount was answering his Question, and was purporting to do nothing else.

BARONESS GAITSKELL

My Lords, should not those people who have such a phobia about nationalisation consider that what is good for Rolls-Royce might be good for one or two other companies?

LORD ORR-EWING

My Lords, has the noble Lord forgotten that last week it was annouced that North Sea oil is to be taken into public ownership and nationalised? Is that not also an instance? At this stage, when there is so much uncertainty in British industry and when it is having to cope with all the difficulties of increased prices, overheads, taxation and increased risk, is it not rather insensible for a minority Government to drive ahead with this divisive policy?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, an individual, a company, a group of companies, or indeed a country, can talk themselves into a state of uncertainty, and I should have thought that that was one course of action which all of us together should try to avoid.

LORD BLYTON

My Lords, does the Minister consider, when private enterprise has to come with the begging bowl to get public money for private use without the nation's having a voice about it, and when we get published figures of what private enterprise has received in the past five years, that that justifies the nation's taking them over?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, what I believe is that there is a situation to-day, which has developed over recent years, in which it would be quite wrong to speak of this matter in terms of old-time dogma. We are living in a new situation, and it would be right to speak of it in terms appropriate to the present situation.

LORD HANKEY

My Lords, will the Government bear in mind that so much talk about nationalisation of this, that and the other industries without being very specific, makes it almost impossible to get investment for any industry, which is so much desired by the T.U.C., by industry, by the Government and by every section of the community?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, in this uncertain state there is one thing about which we can be absolutely certain; that is, that the difficulties of British industry in getting investment capital have not been created by any talk in the lifetime of the present Administration.