HL Deb 17 July 1974 vol 353 cc1125-7

3.13 p.m.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what conclusions were revealed at the Brussels Seminar of European nations on a programme to defeat poverty and what proposals were made by the United Kingdom representatives.

LORD WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, the seminar, held at Brussels from June 24 to 27, discussed outline proposals for pilot studies and projects as part of a programme to combat poverty. In the light of this discussion the Government are considering what projects the United Kingdom might submit to form a part of this programme, which is to be considered further at a meeting of the Council of Ministers of the European Economic Community later this year.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, while welcoming that Answer may I ask, in view of the general feeling that lower paid workers and those receiving social services and in greatest need should have priority, whether the Government will consider consultations with the T.U.C., the C.B.T., and wages councils, with a view to adopting a minimum living wage below which neither the receivers of social benefit nor workers in industry should fall?

LORD WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I will take note of what my noble friend has said and pass it on to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State. But I must point out that the Commission responsible for setting up this Working Party have to some extent tied our hands very considerably. The exercise to be undertaken is in the field of social service support, and it is on that basis that we have been asked—and the Government are proposing to do so—to suggest projects within that framework. We are required to keep within the framework rather than to consider cash benefit support. But I will report to my right honourable friend what my noble friend has said.

LORD ROBBINS

My Lords, can the noble Lord perhaps lighten the darkness of some of us sitting in this House this afternoon, and tell us what is the locus standi of this so-called seminar?

LORD WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I will endeavour to do so. The European Economic Community Social Action Programme arises from a decision taken at the Summit Conference in Paris in October, 1972. Its main aims, as approved by a resolution of the Council of Ministers on January 21, 1974, are, first, the attainment of full and better employment in the Community; secondly, the improvement of living and working conditions so as to make possible their harmonisation while the improvement is being maintained; and, thirdly, the increase in involvement of management and labour in economic and social decisions of the Community and of workers in the life of undertakings. I do not think that I can go beyond that.

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, can the noble Lord say whether any plans are being considered, or formulated, for disposing of the enormous surplus of beef which the Community has accumulated, by selling it at reduced prices to families below the poverty line or to old age pensioners?

LORD WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I understand that there is to be a Statement later this afternoon on this very matter. Perhaps the noble Earl will understand if I do not attempt to reply to him now.

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, I am sorry. I had not seen it.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply to my supplementary question, which gave important additional information. May I ask whether he is aware that I appreciate the attitude of the United Kingdom's representatives who wanted to extend the consideration? May I also ask him whether a living standard for those who are on subsistence benefits, including the disabled and old age pensioners, will also have the effect on wages in industry of raising their level above the poverty line?

LORD WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I would not disagree with my noble friend. But, as I have already tried to point out to your Lordships, we are limited to examining the matter within the framework of the support social services. The Government have to submit their proposals in time for a meeting in September and if there is any possibility, I shall certainly see that this point is considered.